Thread: Great day flying in New Mexico with two CTSWs

Some good CTSW flying today in New Mexico! Brian Longwill of LongwillAircraft LLC, our New Mexico area dealer for Flight Design, flew his CTSW - N200BL - in formation with us in our CTSW N44BZ over the canyon country around the Rio Puerco Valley and toward the Mount Taylor area. A great day to fly with a relatively smooth ride despite strong winds aloft...the west coast storm is moving in on us next. We were remarking about he fact that we were four guys in two airplanes but together burning only 2/3 the fuel that we would have been blowing out our now-sold Skylane's exhaust stack all by itself! And not nearly as much fun. A couple of photos attached...

Those were GREAT pics, John. The one from behind and below, with the dramatic clouds was one of the best I've seen of one of our CT's in flight! Thanks for sharing.

Bob
Appleton, WI
CTsw N715Y

My pleasure Bob. It was a dramatic day to fly and to do a bit of "Hare and Hound" flying. The two CTs in our flight would trade places every few minutes and take photos. Just a huge amount of fun. As a new owner I am certainly enjoying this wonderful plane. Many years of owning heavier "more capable" airplanes, most recently a fully equipped 182, and yet the joy of flight had dulled, something I never thought would happen. It is back again! My partners and I are just having a ball with this. Am planning on taking N44BZ to AirVenture at Oshkosh this summer. Have not been there since 1998 and am looking forward to the flight and to meeting other CT owners there. Thanks again for the kind words.

I had a share in a C182 for over 25 years too and I couldn't agree more about the fun of flying my CT2K. Mine is the long wing and the only problem I have is getting it to stop flying. Finally got the landings down now after about 75 hrs. and XX number of landings. Going to try to fly to Arizona some time in the next 3 weeks if the weather will let us get out of Idaho. Snowing hard right now with up to a foot forecast today.

PS; Don't forget our gathering in McCall the summer of 09. There is a lot to see and do here and we have a lot planned. There is a warbird museum in Nampa, (6 CT's stationed here) a private collection of warbird jets in Ontario, (that will be opened up for us) and great scienery around this area, all within 45 minutes of flying time. We have a pontoon boat trip on the lake with dinner planned one night and there are seminars available for mountain flying if anyone is interested, and the FAA will put on a safety seminar, again, if anyone is interested. All services are within walking distance of the ramp. Looking forward to seeing everyone. Spud

I am planning on making the 09 fly in to McCall. For me a return to Idaho will be a return to my past to an extent...I did my graduate work at the U of I in Moscow, Idaho in the late '70s. Am planning to use the McCall fly-in as the first stop in a more extended flying trip around Idaho and Washington, visiting old haunts, for about a week after.

What approach configuration - speed, flaps - do you use in your CT2k? I understand they handle a lot differently than the CTsw.

I slow to about 70 k. on entering downwind and zero flaps and pull the power back to idle. At the numbers add 15 degrees of flaps with the engine still at idle and trim up for a decent of 500 fpm. On turning base this gives me about 60k and maintains a decent rate at about 400 fpm. On final, slow to 50 or a little slower and sometimes (rarely) I may add a little power for a few seconds to maintain the speed above 45 or to reach the numbers. Adding power is only on hot days at close to gross and is usually not necessary. At 45 at the end of the runway, we will most of the time float well past the numbers. Some times with just me in the plane on a cool day, I would guess, 1000 feet before the speed bleeds off enough to touch down. My touch downs now are pretty smooth but I have to watch the winds. The settings of 30 degrees or 40 are avoided as they dump the nose down too much and I don't want to take the chance of a nose landing. Those higher settings on the flaps really help slow the plane down. I would use them only if going into a short mountain strip. Landing the old 182 was easy, just slow to 80, 70, 60, at 1800 rpm and flair at the numbers, pulling off the power. It would quit flying immediately and land. I bought the long wing thinking it would be needed for flying out of McCall at 5000 feet but now wish I had a SW. I did fly a SW on my first hr of training and it was quit a bit different, requiring power almost all the way down.

PS; I was at Moscow graduating in Feb. of 66 with a BSME. Sorry to be so wordy. Mel

hey spud,

if i was floating 1,000' i would use 30 degrees. you say you land the 2k with 15, at idle and float 1,000' and do this to avoid contacting the nose wheel because at 30-40 the 2k pitches down too much.

you also say that sw required power all the way down. i suggest these are just perceptions and not requirements. i land the sw routinely at idle and 30 degrees and i am pitched down almost 15 degrees. if i use power the pitch flattens. if i use 15 degrees the pitch flattens and if the speed is high enough i float.

i also tend to round out prior to the numbers if the enviorment permits and this way i float to the numbers.

my 2 cents.

you are right, it is the perception. I feel the nose drop when I use full flaps and the float increases because the stall speed is lower, unless you bleed off speed before the numbers. I just make better landings with only 15 degrees. With about 2 and half feet more wing, the float has to increase. Will be interesting and fun to see a bunch of you guys together in McCall for a while to discuss and maybe even ride in some of the other planes. my 2 cents too.

idaho is in range so i bet i will be there.

>>With about 2 and half feet more wing, the float has to increase<< not sure i agree at all. arriving at your touchdown target with excess speed will increase the float. arriving at the touchdown target, inches from the runway will permit you to land as long as you can realize a sink rate.

if the throttle is closed, you are floating because you have a lot of kinetic energy stored and you are bleeding it off. try subtracting 2knots from your speed and see how much that reduces the float. it probably will reduce it some and then you might try another 2 knots.

another way to look at it is to increase your sink rate from 400/fpm to a slightly higher number. at 400 fpm you are going to 0 fpm when you round out. at 450 or 500 you will have less energy left and will got to 0+ sink rate.

power will actually help if used correctly. you are comfortable at speeds that leaves a lot of energy in your pocket and you bleed it off and float. you might think power will make you float forever but not if you pitch up enough to where the sink increases. you are now getting a little behind the power curve or close to it. good to know and understand in case you get too far behind. when behind the stabilator works in reverse forward for more lift and aft for less. also good to know that upon loosing your engine you want forward stick to compensate for the lost power (energy).

you can find a pitch/power combination that will give you the 400/fpm descent that you are used to. the difference will be a slower, steeper glide path with a higher pitch attitude. once you are close you can just close the throttle and viola, sink.

the approach speed that results in float feels better as you approach because you have more control authority but this feeling is a false security. the mushy less responsive speed is still there the difference is you are realizing it in the float more and the approach less.

another question is what constitues a good landing. to a passenger it is all about the contact. in reality many better landings have firmer contacts but use up less field or runway.

problem with saving 30 or 40 for short mountain strips is you don't get the practice until you are attempting a more demanding landing.

my 10 cents

the money is going up, now to 10 cents, I guess I try to control the speed as I did in my old 182 to the point where you do not stall when too high. I know I am being very conservative, but I don't want to make a very hard landing and collapse the gear as has happened on some of the cts. The old Cessna would quit flying when you pulled the power off at the numbers and land when you flared it a little way down the runway. Easy. By the way, trying to control the speed by reducing it 2 knots is going to be pretty hard when on final and trying not to land on the nose or off to the side, etc. All I have is old steam gauges. Still learning after 30 years. When the weather gets a little better will try your directions and I do land once in a while with full flaps, for practice. We have been under the snow clouds for weeks now. I have snow to the top wire on the fence here in McCall and more coming tonight. my 2 bits.