Thread: Finally starting to get this landing thing down

After 160 landings in my logbook, I think I've finally gotten over the hump. My last 10 or so have been consistently under control and gentle. I've had the worst problems on hot days with gusts, ballooning and mechanical turbulence in the flare. Came home yesterday to those conditions and rode through them just fine.

Since I'm a new pilot, my issues are probably a bit different than most of the group. I've found that I've had to go back and drill myself with flying a good approach every time, watching my airspeed, lineup, and descent trim. Getting near the flair, transferring my gaze to the end of the field, and judging the flair just right. There's just not much slack for getting the descent angle and flair right. Flair too abruptly on a hot day and a balloon is almost guaranteed. Piddle away your airspeed feeling for the runway and you're looking for a stall or a goaround. I've found that it's real important to get the airplane trimmed for the correct descent rate so that in the flair, you're pulling the stick back against control pressure. I've also had much better results carrying 2200-2300 rpm down just past the flair and sometimes all the way down to the ground.

The good news is that I'm getting it most times. It's nice to have just a little confidence in my landing abilities.

Congrats Jim,

I don't have clue how many landings I've got...will have to add them up. The confidence has come but always room for imporovement. Airplane is a total blast. Glad you're feeling good about it.

Worked with John Dunham at the Eugene air show yesterday. Lot's of interest. The CT always seems to "wow" everyone.

Roger H

Roger,

You are right about the "wow" factor. Took mine to the Albany fly in yesterday and was immediately and continuosly swarmed. Finally took it home and came back in the car - I live close. I wanted to go see the rest of the event but knew I would not be able to enjoy it. Needed to be able to stay with the plane because some people can't seem to manage their kids who want to hang on the prop and stand on the wheel pants. Some adults aren't too swift either.

I usually like the attention the plane gets but I should have brought a chair and book and just parked myself under the wing.

Last week, for example, was Van's RV Fly In and Homecoming hosted by EAA 292 at Independence. I opened my hangar door and pretty much had a steady stream of folks come through.

John Horn
Independence, OR

Hi Jim,

Try 2700 rpm for 15, 30 and 40 flaps. Try 3000 rpm for zero flaps and let me know what you think. Use your stick to still control the same approach and landing speeds. With these rpm you will always land on the mains softer and not plop down on all three wheels. These rpm's will also give you better control of the plane and rudder control. The front wheel was not designed to take landing forces all the time.

Hi All,


Now that we have a pretty good base of pilots and some hours behind us;

How many of you are using some power all the way to touchdown for your landing?
Let's say something like 2600-3000 rpm?

Of those that are doing good landings, How many use power and how many don't use any power?

Of those people that are having a little issue with landings how many use no power on landings?




Note*
I just had a very nice couple ( Dave Hill and his wife) in a CT from Nampa, ID stop into Tucson for a few days. We had talked the night before his arrival about different things and about landings.
One such subject was cross wind landings. (I had been doing some experimenting with different landing configurations. I know, he's at it again. LOL )
When he came into Tucson the next day he used runway 6 with winds at 9-10 out of 120. We had discussed using 3000 rpm, zero flaps and 60 knots the night before. He used this approach and made the nicest slightly nose high soft touchdown in a crosswind that you ever wanted to see. Very controlled and plenty of authority in is controls verses no throttle in a windy condition. Well done.

As more info from CT pilots come in and I have a chance to talk to them it seems that the info supports that better, more controlled landings and at a much higher percentage happen with power on landings.
I know I may catch some feedback from a few of the accomplished power off people, but the idea is to make good landings as close to 100% of the time for 100% of the pilots if possible and to be gentle on our landing gear as often as possible.

I only post this in the hopes that we can all learn from the feedback from our members and help all new comers conquer smoother landings. I still believe new pilots to the CT should learn power on landings first as they are easier to master then add power off landings to their bag of tricks so to speak.

rog,

guess i have to much time in front of a 2-stroke ( rotax 503 ) to ever like power on landings. i only use power when i need it to make the field or to recapture lost airspeed. i avoid flat approaches for the same reason. i can drag it in and touch down on the numbers and stop real short if i drag it in but again i feel vulnerable. the 3rd thing that makes me feel vulnerable is excess speed. we all like the control authority but in all landings you have to slow at some point and go through a vulnerable period, if you are fast enought to float you might be extending this period.

normal landings for me remain throttle closed and 30 degrees. best landings are full stall but i only do it if everything looks perfect. of course i open the throttle a little if i balloon a little ( i never bounce )

around here winds are often 90 degrees cross 15 gusting to 35 and then if i try it i use 15, 60kts and power as needed to control my sink rate.

my high altitude ops give me a bit more motivation to limit my airspeed and use more flaps, ymmv

Hi Ed,

Your the one I new I would get a vote for closed throttle, but your are the one I meant as an accomplished closed throttle landing pilot. I mean this in a nice way. Most people aren't at that level in landings or have your extremes at your airfield.

Typically 30 degrees power off at CYBW.

Sometimes when I have to land "long" it is 15 degrees with power off.

Cross winds typically 0 degrees with power as needed until flare when power comes off all the way.

thanks roger, i knew who and what you meant.

i just went flying with a high time CFII so he could get the 5 hours my insurance requires and then teach erin. we did 4 landings with him doing the 2nd and 4th.

he gave me a bfr and bowed out. to demonstrate my proficiency he made me turn base 1,000' from the end of the runway over 600' agl terrain doing a teardrop slip at 40 degrees and then stopping at the 1st turn off. i've done this before in my 172xp and it was even easier in the ctsw.

the cfii's landings were pretty ugly, seemed that once he started to flare that he didn't control sink rate and pitch attitude and one time let the nose wheel fall thru and contact and the other time walked from main to main and back again.

his observation was that i don't round out until i flare and it is all done very low.

he also guessed that the ctsw would be a handful in gusty conditions.

his final comment was that it might take someone a long time to learn to land a ctsw if he wasn't already a skilled pilot.

Hi Ed,

He just has some bad habits he brings along from heavier aircraft. Like I have always said, CFI's are not always right and have bad habits just like everyone else. They just have CFI in on their license and ours don't, but we are used to light aircraft which is all the difference between the sun and moon when landing. You and I came from light aircraft so we had some idea about what was going to happen at the end when speed was lost. I had a high time CFI get me in trouble with my last LSA because he didn't understand the difference and I allowed him to get me in trouble before I said no. A smart CFI will ask an owner how an aircraft handles and ask to be shown and helped on a landing. Most aircraft have some differences and especially light aircraft as ultralights and LSA.
The I can fly anything type, well look for another CFI.