Thread: Finally starting to get this landing thing down

well said roger,

i'll close by saying that the local conditions can be demanding and they do influence my opinions an my technique as well. however it is probably a good idea to give some amount of weight to my take. it is harder but better to learn from other's mistakes especially in aviation where some errors can only be made 1 time.

because i am more often exposed to adverse conditions and always with less than 75% performance i more often encounter challenges that test your ability to survive.

last i heard our airport was in the top 3 in terms of being statistically dangerous. funny thing it isn't the locals that kill themselves but the sea level guys. with high altitude ops you are going to be in situations where your margins are smaller more frequently so you experience more " close calls. " the upside is that when things turn to shit it is more of a "been there done that" kind of thing.

when your environment produces fewer challenges your are less prepared when the time comes.

i'm not advocating my flying style as an initial target but i do think it important to be proficient even if the motor quits. steep power off approaches, to me are similar to always touching down on the centerline at or near the numbers. demanding more of yourself on a daily basis will make the emergency landing seem pretty normal [ speaking from experience ]

some of the pursuits in my life, skiing, tennis, golf, flying, programming ... have been similar in that you progress in your ability level. when it comes to landings it is important to limit the conditions that you are willing to fly in until your skills improve. no-one can have advanced pilot skills prior to having begginer and intermediate level skills.

your approach is a bit 'one size fits all' and mine is more 'use it as you develope it" i just wanted to say that they are both important.

Thread Monkey,

Trunk Monkey's cousin.

Roger Lee said:

"Now that we have a pretty good base of pilots and some hours behind us;

How many of you are using some power all the way to touchdown for your landing?
Let's say something like 2600-3000 rpm? "

Two brief comments from my side:

1.- I DO USE some power all the way to touch down, and it has proved to be the right method of doing consistent GOOD landings. No question about it.

2.- the different opinions and comments in this Forum are worth GOLD !!!! so please do not stop !!

Happy flights !!

josé

With the recent hard landing in Florida and another nose wheel damaged, plus some that have developed wobbles this might be a good spot for and ad for keeping some power in until touchdown.

Ed,
I'm just thinking out loud here a little. LOL

If you leave some power all the way down until you touch your main gear (2700-3000rpm) and keep the stick back let's say to maintain 60 knots. This will in turn keep the nose up a little higher than if you land with no power. With no power you have to keep the nose a little flatter or you dump speed to quick trying to hold the nose higher. When in a no power landing many of us have touched down with all three tires hitting the ground at the same time or even a few nose first. Maybe the mains even touch a split second before the nose wheel does. Bottom line the nose gear was never meant to take the punishment like the main gear does.
If you left the power in until touch and controlled your speed with the stick to maintain 50 or 60 knots it really doesn't matter then the nose has to be higher just to control the speed. Then the main gear will always take the punishment of the landing and not the nose wheel because the nose wheel will always be up higher than the mains to let them take the punishment of the landing and the nose should then just settle to the runway.



Ok Soapbox time,
As we learn to fly different aircraft in our lives we MUST adapt, overcome and persevere with each new situation and difference. Each new situation is not a fault or design problem it is just different and we must learn to adapt to differences. People who can't adapt, overcome and persevere will always find fault and not solutions.

Ok, I'll take my beating for my soapbox now.

i had a shimmy in my nose strut too but it was due to soft parts and not from a landing where the nose wheel contacted first or firmly. i know of a series of nose wheel wobbles all due to the same set of bad parts. i agree nose gear is delicate and it is necessary that you treat it with care. the nose wheel can also be damaged if you stall nose high more than inches from the ground. you still contact mains first but the nose falls through and contacts too firmly, a cfi friend demonstrated this on woodstock for me this week.

to play my roll as roger lee's pita i'll point out that the you ( roger ) seem to be reaching a conclusion that we need to land power on primarily to protect the nose gear. it is a fair argument but not necessarily the heart of this thread.

i'll agree to this extent, a ctsw pilot should do what is necessary to insure that his landings contact on the main gear first.

i like to use landings in easy conditions to simulate engine out approaches and landings. complicate the conditions a bit and i use more speed and power and less flaps to increase my margins. today i did 2 landings, early was calm and i did a full stall power off landing where i got the stick to the aft stop on contact, sweet. in the early afternoon back in mammoth it was more complicated and i used less flaps, 60 kts, a big pattern and meaningful amount of power. i didn't pick a power setting and fly it in, instead i did a series of throttle adjustments to keep the sink rate more constant.

i suspect most of us can demonstrate an array of approach and landing techniques and routinely practice them.

if all i knew was a power on landing i would want to have in my mind that things would be a bit different in a engine out landing. when deadsticking i keep in mind that it is ok to allow the stick to move forward if the ct wants to baloon. if the engine is running i add power instead.

Hi Ed,



I knew I could suck you back in this conversation. You weren't afraid of my "Thread Monkey'? For those who have never seen a "Trunk Monkey" type Trunk Monkey in your search engine and watch the 4 very short videos, you'll laugh your butt off. Enjoy.

My approach to power on verses power off is speaking in general terms and not doing either all the time and depends on conditions. I love a good debate>>>>LOL

Hi Ed,

Watch this short video clip. I think we have been out done on our landings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxg0ESxbLww

i lol'd

made me think that we have been treating a basic maneuver as though it was advanced.

ctsw's land so short that any safe method is fine. find a flying style that is safe and rewarding and that promotes sharp skills and landing the ctsw will be fun. it's all good.

Hi Ed,

Glad you liked the video. Unbelievable takeoff and landing.

I've been practicing for my practical test, doing lots and lots of landings. Today I combined landing practice with engine-out training, cutting the throttle to idle in the downwind leg, flying the rest of the pattern and landing dead stick. Great training. I'm really getting somewhere because the landings are much more consistant than they used to be. Landing with the nose well high seems to be the big key for me. I overdid it a little bit once and did a full-stall landing from about a foot off the deck. No harm, not even that hard, just a bit of a surprise. I usually land with flaps 15, but am working on flaps zero and flaps 30. I did the flaps 30 with just a tad of power at the end. After the nose touched down, I glanced at the airspeed indicator and it was against the peg at 20 knots. It's really great to start learning the real potential of the airplane.