Thread: Finally starting to get this landing thing down

i've known this guy for twenty some years, he's a good CFII and a talented stick.

the reason it didn't work out is that he determined that he couldn't/wouldn't do it after 2 landing attempts. if he would have looked at the 5 hours in type required by my carrier as an opportunity to learn something new he would have been fine, probably in about 1 1/2 hours.

i'm not in agreement that it would take a skilled pilot to learn to land a ctsw.

i also suspect that for some the sight picture and amount of rudder required are out of their norm and require a few tries to get it. if you make an assessment prior to that you haven't given it a fair chance.

if however you wait till you get a feel for the ctsw to assess you will probably think it is fun and performs pretty well.

Sorry for the late question on this thread....
I am curious about the land with power. How long of a runway are you working with? I am a student pilot and working with a shorter grass strip with a clearance requirment just before the landing thresh hold. I am not sure if I could bleed off speed from a power on landing in time to get the plane on the ground. Yes I occaisonally add a very small amout of power if final looks low/short but other than that it has been power cut back all the way.

Jim,

My instructor and I were practicing short-field landings on Saturday. Using flaps 30 and modulating the throttle to pinpoint where you touchdown is very effective. Fly a descent glideslope that aims at a point 100-200 feet in front of where you want to touchdown, then as you get close, use the throttle to stretch your glide and hit the spot.

I don't consider myself an expert, but the CT seems very easy to land. Maybe I am concentrating much more than previously because of all I have read in this forum about the plane being hard to land.

My instructor taught me to pull the power all the way off abeam the numbers on downwind. With the Rotax, it seems much easier as you don't have to worry about shock-cooling the heads. It took a little while to get used to applying left rudder as the plane slowed down, but now I like to pull the power in the downwind entry turn so I don't need as much. I have always liked to stay a little high until final approach and then make adjustments with flaps or slips. My last plane was difficult to slip, so I forgot about that as an option during my initial landings with this plane.

I still get a kick out of how simple the systems are. I keep thinking I am missing something, even with a checklist. Push lever forward, stick back, go up.

I think the CT is really a great plane and I am glad we purchased one.

Jim,

you have 3 issues to deal with

1) obstacles on approach
2) short field
3) rough field

power on vs power off is a matter of the source of energy.

power off is mostly kinetic energy and requires a steeper approach. too steep then slip, too flat then add power.

power on supplements the kinetic energy with thrust from your powerplant so the approach is flatter or requires more flaps or both.

given your 3 issues slow is best. slow can be accomplished with power on or off the issues here are a balance of skill and safety. steep is harder to do but much better if you loose the motor. flat is easier to do and sometimes is used because the margin is too small.

one big question in setting your goals here is "do you have alternatives if you are not going to clear the trees?" if not and you do it all the time i vote for steep or power off. if you can simply turn left and use the road for instance then more power makes more sense.

Hi Ed,

Never said you have to be a skilled pilot to land the CT. Sometimes I think a new person does better because he doesn't have any preconcieved ideas. I have seen people do fine after a couple of landings as a beginner. My point is that a lot of people don't open their minds that this a light aircraft and as such may take a different approach to landing. Some CFI's have so much time that they only do things one way and when it doesn't work out then they think something is wrong with the plane and not their attitude towards light aircraft. Not a skills issue, but an educational one.

the cfi said it

Hmmmm
Had my first session in a 152 today... very scary! Pull the power & watch it sink, 1000 ft till final then high glide at 65knots till round out. We will see.
Mal

Hi Jim,


To me this is what these post are all about, learning, education, skill and maint. development and number 1 comradery.
First of all Ed and I always debate this issue. It's kind of like Ford's and Chevy's, you typically like one or the other. We just look at landing two different ways. My belief is that Ed is a very accomplished pilot with no power landings and I think we all need to know how to do those. You can't compare Ed to all other CT pilots as we are all different in our skill levels and different in the way we are taught even though the way we were taught should be the same.
That's a compliment Ed.
I'm trying to find and easier way for lots of people and not just one or two. If too many people are having landing issues don't you think it is about time we all, including CFI's try something different and maybe even textbook. By all these landing post people must be having an issue. I was shown at first to land power off, but now find that I'm 99% more consistent with power and especially in crosswinds.

My point is making it easier at first then proceed towards the power off. It is a harder skill to learn at first because you may have more corrections and inputs at the bottom and you can't afford many mistakes. Some of these landings have lead to some disastrous plane damage and I think this may help if people learn to use a little power. Quite a number of CFI's are having a rough time landing. You have to ask yourself, WHY?

The sink rate at the bottom can be slowed a tad by leaving in some power, it gives a little better rudder authority and the sink rate slows so the touch is more often softer.
The approach speed and round out all stays the same, nothing should change and if done right not even your touchdown point. I will come in with 2700 rpm just like you do, but at the bottom I will have a slightly higher nose up attitude that makes sure I touch mains first. Your stick controls your speed and the rpm lets me keep my nose up slightly. With no power the sink rate is a little faster, speed bleeds a tad faster and there is less rudder authority and leaving some power in will help reduce some of that. Leaving power in doesn't mean you can't screw it up, but helps reduce some of the landing factors.

Just like I stated in the other post. Dave Hill's landing in the crosswind at 3000rpm and no flaps was perfect. He didn't glide any farther he just controlled his speed with his stick.


P.S.
I like Ed and can't wait to give him a big hug in at Page, Az. in Oct.

P.S.S.
Jim,
Try some power what do you have to lose?

My idiot Cessna CFI never taught me to look at the end of the runway to gauge height.
Many months after I had the CT I was taught to look at the far end, I practiced on a long runway just holding the plane a foot or two above the center line for as long as I could. Just before stalling the stick would go back & the tail would lay back..I'd do a great feeling landing.
After about 12 landings in a row that day they became both fun and easy.