Thread: What's your length..?

Just got the permit on my new baby... after 3.5 weeks waiting... grrr
Anyway... the good news is that I now have done 3 hours flying with varying success.
A few points if you can help with please as my CFI is very good but no hours on the CTSW.
Take off .... easy no problem.
Flying... great but a little noisy, I have contacted Bose today (I am a Bose Audio dealer) to see if they can tweek the Aviation X headsets to cancel the CTs noise a little better.
Flying... very rudder sensitive.
Landings... now here we have some issues. I fly out of 300 ish metres (1000ft ish) & I tried 30 & 40 degree flaps yesterday with moderate success.
They don't want to come down do they? It seems that you have to cut the power right back & literally point the nose at the ground for it to come down on finals... any better ideas? When you guys are using only 15 degree of flap for landing do you need a LONG strip?
I have read all I can on here on landings & still need help with a short strip.
Ta guys
Mal

congrats on the permit mal,

personally I would focus on 30 and eve 40 degree landings due to the short field. the lack of visual references due to the short nose and good over the glare shield visibilty might make perception of pitch attitude more difficult. when you increase from 15 to 30 you need to pitch down quite a bit to keep your airspeed above 52 kts. the leading edge wing spar (where your wet compass is mounted) makes a good horizon for 30 or 40. if you keep power in the pitch attitude will be less steep but you might have trouble keeping your landing short enough.

when approaching at 30 or 40 and little or even idle power the sight picture is dramatic. i try to keep above 50 kts till i'm extremely low and then round out with only inches or a couple of feet of altitude. it is almost like plaing chicken with the ground, nail your speed, too slow and sink is high, too fast and float is long, only enough back pressure to round out and not contact the nose wheel. too much back pressure (and or too much speed) and you will easily baloon. make sure your hand is on the throttle and perfect your go-arounds before your landings. if you baloon or bounce a little a small amount of power to soften the sink.

at 40 degrees you might want to try and chop the power completely only when your mains contact. sink rate at 40 can be meaningful.

the ct was designed for fields like yours, your skills might need some developing but the plane is honest.

Hi Mal,

A 1000 ft. runway is not the ideal plays to learn.

If you are having to point the nose way down then your approach altitude is too high. With a 14:1 glide ratio you need a flatter or shallower approach. The other planes you and the CFI have flown have a higher sink rate. The higher the glide ratio in a plane the lower the approach altitude. Slow the plane down at the midfield downwind. Have it back to let's say 60 knts and at least 15 flaps. You can play with this as you get more experience. With a 1000 ft. runway I would definitely use 30 or 40 flaps and make my approach as low as you can. This will allow you to set down and be consistent at landing at the threshold of the runway and give you time to add power and go around in case you need to do a go around. Zero throttle is ok like Charlie Tango uses, but he has 400+ landings under his belt, more than most people and he's good at it because he uses that most of the time. You being newer need to be more careful on this short field and this is a short field. Precision is the key here. If you keep your approach low, 30 flaps and 50 knts. you have enough room. I would learn for now to keep approximately 2700 rpm of throttle right to touchdown. If you set up your approach correctly( low, 50 knts) then you will not need extra runway and your settling to the ground will be gentler. As with any type of landing it is all in the approach setup. Do lots of approaches with no touchdowns until you can hit your threshold mark at the correct speed, 50 knts, and only 12"-24" off the ground then you will be able to land anywhere. I don't know what's at the other end of your runway, but 1000" doesn't leave room for error.
It will be all in your approach setups.

Practice, practice and good luck!

Thanks Guys..
Both of your observations are bang on the money (correct in English).
The trouble thus far is getting the bugger to go lower...so yes you are correct I am coming in too high. What do you do... cut the power & put the nose down? I learnt at Otherton so 1000 ft is what I am used to, run off the end & it's a fence... kinda makes you go around if you are a little deep!
In the manual it states 50 knot approach speed & 45 over the threshold... she sure seems slow at that speed... is this realistic? And... how much room do you need for a 30 degree landing.... we do have larger airfields in the UK I would like to practise on
Thanks again
Mal

Malt,

You seem to be getting lots of good advice re. your landings, but perhaps I can add just a bit on the end. My CT and I have done 500 plus landings mostly in to short fields and I have to say that even now nothing concentrates my mind quite as much. But it is a fantastic machine. May I suggest that you get used to the 40 deg. flap if you are using a 300 yard strip. Mine is the long wing version but once the last bit of the 40 deg goes down you will almost certainly need to trim quite a way forward to maintain 50 knots which is my usual approach speed once on final. If the weather is reasonable and not too gusty make sure that you are trimmed for 50 knots and not 55. 5 knots too fast and it is very easy do a three pointer and it will float quite a long way (for a CT that is).

Peter

Hi Mal,

50 knts. is very good for 30 or 40 flaps. No chance at 50 for a stall. 45 knts I believe is asking for trouble some day when the conditions change or you fail to see the airspeed die a little more just above the numbers. Then it's going to be a big OUCH. I keep 50 right to the flare. Remember without any throttle the speed bleeds quick so you need to be about 12" from the ground. Try being at 600 ft. at the midfield downwind. My pattern altitude at my field is 800 ft. and I usually fly in at 600 ft. Our field elevation is 2400 ft. When in Mcminnville, OR at the USA CT Fly-In I kept coming in too high and always had to dive it down some because I wasn't used to flying at almost sea level. The CT just wanted to keep going even without throttle.

Make sure to practice go-arounds with 40 deg flaps. The nose attitude is very low and feels more like a helicopter taking off. Unless you get used to this sight picture, you may have a tendency to pitch up a little (to have a similar sight picture to other planes) and you might end up with a power-on stall.

I am personally against being slow on final. I try not to drop below 50 (prefer 55).

some of the best advice you have got is from Roger Lee and it is practice approaches [ and go-arounds ] first and landings when your approaches become precise and consistant

Originally Posted by Roger Lee

...If you are having to point the nose way down then your approach altitude is too high. With a 14:1 glide ratio you need a flatter or shallower approach...

it might be helpful here to be more precise with our language. if you are on glide slope ( hopefully at 1.3 Vso = 52 kts ) on short final than you are not too high even if the nose is way down. the 14:1 glide ration isn't realevant in a landing configuration, the ct has a big range of glide ratios with 14:1 being best glide or best l/d at zero flaps. when you change flap / flaperon settings you alter the MAC (mean arodynamic chord) and the functional angle of incidence of the wing resulting in big pitch attitude changes as well as big glide ratio changes, not to mention big changes in drag.

if we were to hold a contest to see who could touch down closest to a target and then who could stop by the shortest point the winner would probably be "dragging it in" 40 degrees, descent arrested at a low altitude, flirting with getting behind the power curve, lots of power... the big advantage her is that you are slow and have all available energy in your right hand so you don't have to bleed it off you can simply chop, so no potential to float once you close the throttle. since LSA equates to simple / delicate gear you want to avoid the firm contact that is associated with short field landings and this means controlling your sink rate and not chopping when you have more than a few inches to fall.

before you decide on an optimum approach for your field you will need to consider obstacles on approach, sometimes approaches need to be steep. i would never land downind given the length and i would be much more comfortable with a headwind. once you factor in the obsticals you can now factor in your personal preference in terms of configuration, slipping, power etc. my experience tells me that i need to be comfortable with all types of approaches. winds, lift or sink, traffic, turbelence, judgement errors, ... etc all lead to good yet variable landing approaches.

power on approach means a more normal apprach attitude as well an easier flare but it is a negative in the case of a lost engine. losing your engine needs to be a big conern on takeoff due to the short field length as well. always have your abort plan in mind and know where your first landing option is and at what altitutde (adjust for current winds) you can attempt to utilize it.

you have the perfect aircraft for your local field(s) and yet your risk is far higher than we western us pilots are used to. become very good at controlling and maintaing airspeed and pitch attitude, develope a good sense of where the ground is, develop a good sense of your sink (or climb) rate and control it.

for your first hundred landings think better safe than sorry, go around often, land when things come together perfectly. repitition is a great learning tool

Well said Ed.

Great, good balanced advice from you all. I am off to try it out & will report back.
A little bit of background...
Otherton is a great little airfield with around 50 planes based & around 30 frequent pilots, very little facilities but great flying! It is located about 30 mins north of Birmingham alongside one of the busiest motorways in the UK, the M6. Longest runway is 300m & the shortest around 210m (not to be used by me unless 20knots + on the nose). We have a mixture of flexi & fixed wing aircraft of varying speed & a very low & close circuit at 400ft QFE, all runways are surrounded by fields... so if it does go wrong you should walk away & many have done many times... broken undercarriage is about as bad as it gets. What it has taught me over the last 5 years... is if you can land at Otherton you can pretty much land it anywhere Alas my CT is now the fastest plane at the field so all eyes are on me & my approach.... & that looking down approach is more akin to a flexi view!
Otherton picture here.
http://ukga.com/airfield/otherton/3913
Thanks again for your help.
Mal