Thread: accurate control of airspeed in the CT is very desireable

I was reading the advice I received qutoed below.

"While landings at absolute minimum airspeed are desireable it is always nice to have some margins particularly at airdromes with gusty winds. As you remember I tried to insist on exact control of airspeed, 56 KIAS, at a normal attitude for final. This is basically an agreement between trainee and trainor for training although I do think that accurate control of airspeed in the CT is very desireable. In addition maintaining exact control of airspeed insures good crosscheck of airspeed throughout final and even the flare and should avoid undesireable energy states-- low airspeed high angles of attach (pitch attitudes.)"

This made me think, normally you cannot equate high angles of attack and pitch attitude. For instance you could stall at a level pitch attitude with an adequate sink rate. Even though you are level the relative wind is coming from below and can exceed the critical angle of attack.

In the context of a nose low apporach, that rounds out very low and then fly's parralel to the runway at 3' you can in this case equate pitch attitude with angle of attack. In this configuration the relative wind must be parrallel to the runway. I see how using good pitch attitude control that one can avoid an undersirable energy state in the CT.

"The leveling off over the runway at a very low altitude and then transitioning to the flare and landing was sort of like taking apart a golf swing to its component parts- actually I'm not a golfer. But, with experience and practice the various steps become more like one fluid movement. "

I love landing this plane

I now have about 3 1/2 hrs in the Ct. I always seem to end up left of centerline slightly. I find the CT gets a little squrilly at flareout. Maybe I should keep a little power in. Any thoughts :

Do you think your sailplane time has you more oriented to flying from the center-line and the left seat perspective has you a little left on touch down?

I believe most CT pilots find power useful on approach and landings. When conditions are smooth or calm enough I prefer no power but that's me.

My most common mistake is not getting the stick all the way back before I contact, when I do this I often regain unwanted altitude and then apply power to keep from landing hard.

Learning to land the CT came quickly enough for me but learning the subtleties is taking a long time.

Hi All,

You guys should really get the King Schools video CD on "Takeoffs & Landings" which also includes everything about crosswinds. It is well worth your while. I just went through it and I will be the first to admit I could change a few things in my landings , especially in crosswinds. I'm not throwing any stones, but there is allot of bad habits and misinformation out there, be it from CFI's or private pilots. Seeing that landings account for a large portion of accidents it very well could be the best $49 you ever spent. Might be the cheapest insurance against an accident, too.
The video states that a small amount of power is always better because of less problems and corrections in the flare and settling to the ground, less chance of hitting the nose wheel (you should always hit mains first and not a three point landing if you don't want damage) and less chance of an engine out issue when you are only at idle. CFI's seem to make the same and as many mistakes as the rest of us, so taking someones word for it may not always be the best without a little research to back it up. I always use a little power in landings and they are very smooth. I can also make landings with the engine turned off or at idle in all configurations because I believe in practicing for all types of landings. Engine off is a piece a cake, you just get one shot at it. Think about practicing it because that is the type of landing you will have to make when everything goes bad and most likely not on a runway. I don't think you should panic or be afraid of engine outs and the only way to do that is to practice them. But for the everyday landing a small amount of power lets you grease the landing every time.

Thanks all for the input here....very informative and valuable information which I find very useful.
Most of my landings are on hard (ashphalt) runways and find that I still make a distinct "chirp" on touchdown......not that the landing is hard, but I would like to achieve the "greaser" that Roger speaks about.
It has been quite a steep learning curve transitioning to the CT after having spent the last 35 years flying "heavies", so any information you guys (or gals) can impart is most welcome.

I assume that the idea is to setup the approach at 56 kts (30 Flap) with a constant trickle of power, and keep the power on until touchdown? How about 15 Flap approaches.....60 kts too fast?
I would like to achieve a smooth touchdown but accurately on the threshold numbers if possible...rather than floating down the runway until gravity takes over.

Any ideas?

Regards

Dave

Hi Dave,

In those CD's they do talk about coming in too fast and not enough flaps. This made for more bad landings and correction problems and a bigger chance for a baloon. Very informative. When I flew my first Ct the CFI had me come in at 15 flaps and 50 knots. No wind more flaps, more wind less flaps. Depending on your skill level you can hit 30 flap and 45 knots. When I have had CFI's in the cockpit that had only flew heavies they all had some problems. The number one problem was not flying it close to the ground and thought they had lots of stored energy and they would just settle to the runway. They tended to be too high and when a light aircraft quits flying it tends to plop to the ground. Light aircraft under flaps tend to lose speed quicker than heavies, especially under 30 or 40 flaps. Flying my taildragger Kolb was a very good lesson. (fly it to the ground, means within 1 foot) I have learned to fly everything to the ground with a small amount of power and just about every landing is good.

Best thing to do is always practice like you play!

Hi Arthur,

Try this for centering. Always put the center line between your feet for lining up. You can only be 1-2 feet from dead center, because that is all you are from dead center in the plane itself. Works every time. If you line up with the entire airplane or use the runway as the only reference then you can be as much as 20' off. Also everyone should remember that when we add or subtract power we need to change the rudder peddles or we will drift to one side or the other of the runway. There was an accident report posted somewhere where I read that a pilot was coming in for a landing and for some reason (I forgot why) added power and the plane turned right. The CFI took the plane and added more power and it turned more right and off the runway they went. They couldn't figure out why. Well that is because they forgot to add more rudder for the power increase. This should have been flying 101 from that CFI.
A little power will help keep you from having mushy controls, that being said mushy controls is ok if you are aware of the situation.
Happy Landings. Let me know if this helps out.

Hi Dave,

P.S.

My tires chirp when I touch down. I may not feel the landing, but will hear the tires chirp when they touch down going from zero speed to around 50 mph. Noise is ok just not the teeth jaring. LOL

Joke
Do you know why it is called a toothbrush?

Answer:
Because it was invented in Arkansas!

Maybe this was better since a teethbrush doesn't sound quite right. LOL

Hi Roger.....yes you are right...I initially tended to flare way too high as it had been a long time since I'd had my backside that close to the ground when in an airplane! I still have not got as close as I would like (say 2 ft) but I will get there.
I will certainly order those CD's you mentioned....I had a quick look at the preview and liked what I saw.

Sounds like you guys pick on the "Arkys" like we Aussies make jokes about the Kiwis (New Zealanders)

Here is an ATC story:-


While taxiing at London Gatwick, the crew of a US Air flight departing for Ft. Lauderdale
made a wrong turn and came nose to nose with a United 727. An irate female ground
controller lashed out at the US Air crew, screaming: "US Air 2771, where the hell are you
going! I told you to turn right onto Charlie taxiway! You turned right on Delta! Stop right there.
I know it's difficult for you to tell the difference between 'C' and 'D', but get it right!" Continuing
her rage to the embarrassed crew, she was now shouting hysterically: "God! Now you've screwed everything up! It'll take forever to sort this out! You stay right there and don't move till I tell you to! You can expect progressive taxi instructions in about half an hour, and I want you to go exactly where I tell you, when I tell you, and how I tell you! You got that, US Air 2771?" "Yes ma'am," the humbled crew responded. Naturally, the ground control communications frequency fell terribly silent after the verbal bashing of US Air 2771. Nobody wanted to chance engaging the irate ground controller in her current state of mind. Tension in every cockpit out in Gatwick was definitely running high. Just then an unknown pilot broke the silence and keyed his microphone, asking: "Wasn't I married to you once?"

Regards

Dave

Originally Posted by Roger Lee

There was an accident report posted somewhere where I read that a pilot was coming in for a landing and for some reason (I forgot why) added power and the plane turned right. The CFI took the plane and added more power and it turned more right and off the runway they went. They couldn't figure out why. Well that is because they forgot to add more rudder for the power increase.

Sounds like you got that backwards Roger Lee. There are a number of things that could account for yawing right (un-commanded I believe) like wake turbulence or a micro-burst or just a gust. However applying power at a high angle of attack requires right rudder because the forces that result from the application of power yaw left.