Thread: the ball thing

Hello All, I am flying out of KSEG in PA. I just soloed
in a CTLS. I wanted to know if any of you are haveing problems with keeping
the ball centered. For me it is all over the place... not so much take offs,,,
but landings are a real chore... turning to base and final, . In level flight it
seems like I am flying the plane in a slip!!!! (dog legged) If this keeps up I
will were out the right rudder pedal befor the left (and my shoe!!!) The plane
also has the 'fuel tank emptying blues!!!'.... one tank drains faster. I have time
in a 150,cherokee, 172... but this plane is kicking my ass!!!!!
Any thoughts

I've never flown the CTLS, but I can tell you that the CTSW is not a trainer. I had all the problems you speak of and was able to work through them with lots of practice. All except soft field landings and we're working on that.

As to the ball being all over the place, it's a pretty common experience in the beginning. Part of the problem is that you have to fly the CT with your feet and you don't have enough experience to sense and correct uncoordinated flight without looking at the ball. It took me a long time to get there. Your instructor may have some drills to help. If you try to fly by just looking at the ball, you'll never get there.

Landings are the hardest part of flying. There has been a huge amount written here on landing CT's. I'm not going to bore everyone by repeating it. Take a look at the landing thread. Here's Jim's rules for landing a CT without breaking it.

1. No gusts, flaps 30 and 55 knots over the fence. Round out at about 5 feet. You now have about 5 seconds worth of energy. Keep the nose up and expect to add some right rudder.

2. Gusts, flaps 15 and 60-65 knots over the fence depending on gusts. Rest of the drill is the same.

3. If you bounce more than 1 foot, go around. If you feel you are loosing directional control, go around. Be aware that if you seemingly grease it in, you may only have one main wheel in contact with the runway. Keep flying the plane.

the 2 issues are certainly related. keeping the ball centered throughout my flight means even fuel usage.

the right pedal gets a lot of use on take off and climb out, this is normal

the ct needs more rudder input then the 150, cherokee, 172. try initiating turns more slowly, more with rudder less with aileron, and attempt to keep the ball centered as opposed to allowing it to loose its centered position and then correct to get it back.

be particularly careful on your base to final turn as many stall/spin accidents happen at this point. that scenario goes like this:
1) you overshoot your base to final turn
2) you are careful not to bank more then 30 degrees in the pattern
3) you tighten your turn with rudder and even oppose that with ailerons to maintain no more then 30 degree bank.

the crossed controls, coupled with a high angle of attack, coupled with some back pressure and the result is a spin from 500'.

Originally Posted by Jim Stewart

... Here's Jim's rules for landing a CT without breaking it.

1. No gusts, flaps 30 and 55 knots over the fence. Round out at about 5 feet. You now have about 5 seconds worth of energy. Keep the nose up and expect to add some right rudder.

2. Gusts, flaps 15 and 60-65 knots over the fence depending on gusts. Rest of the drill is the same.

3. If you bounce more than 1 foot, go around. If you feel you are loosing directional control, go around. Be aware that if you seemingly grease it in, you may only have one main wheel in contact with the runway. Keep flying the plane.

Good advice Jim but I'm confused on 1 point. Why expect a need for right rudder on roll out? Personally on rollout I like to go for negative flaps to destroy lift and position my controls as needed. Aileron into the wind, rudder and stearing as needed (left or right)

Hello ALL, thank-you for all the input. I must tell you, I have more
go-arounds than landings in this plane!!!!!! I have been practicing
short/soft field stuff. I still am having a hard time geeting used to
this little bird getting tossed around ..... even in the lightest of winds!!!!
But it is getting better!!!!! Here in central Pa flying is generally good...
up to about 9:00am... then all hell breaks loose..... It seems like the
wind is on a timer....

Tom,

You'll learn to love it!! At least I did. I flew for hours with a tail dragger pilot until I finally got it down. It should eventually be "painless" and "easier" -- you'll get there and when you do you'll jump up in the air and do that "YES" thing!!

Patients, practice and patients. Hopefully you'll end up loving that little plane like most of the rest of us...

Keep us posted and practice and ask us and practice!!

Dont worry your not alone but stick with it! Here are are a few things you can try with your instructor that I like to do with my students.

1. Trim the rudder for "feet off" ball centered in cruise flight.

2 Keeping the ball centered is all about timing the rudder input slightly before the aileron input. You can really see this if you put the nose on a prominent point on the horizon, then roll right and left 20-30deg of bank while trying to keep the nose on the same point with your feet. If you are late in the input the nose will move oppisite the bank first, if your to early it will move to far the direction you pushed. If your thinking about moving the stick left or right, lead the input with your foot a little. Same is true for power changes, adding throttle=right foot, decreasing throttle=left foot

3. Try S-Turns with a twist- At 1500'agl above your favorite S-turn road, set up with 15 flaps and rpm as required to maintain 60KIAS around 3600-4000rpm. Enter the S-turn manuever as you normally would but your doing it at 60 kts. Continue this for a few s-turns then start adding in climbs and descents with each 180 deg turn. Increase throttle to max, maintain 60KIAS and climb during a 180deg turn, when you cross the road set the power to about 2600 rpm and maintain 60 KIAS and start a descent for the next 180 deg turn. This manuever will really make you work the feet to keep the ball centered.

4. Dont try to chase the ball around, get it close then then make small pressure changes to fix it the rest of the way if needed.

Good Luck

Eric Swisher
Copper City Aviation Services

Apply the foot pressure to where the ball is out!! ie: ball to the left--left foot, ball to the right-- right foot!! With power you will find more right foot needed, especially on t/o and powered turns. Maybe you have "lazy feet" (that's what they said to me) Try to make a mental note to keep your feet alive, wake them up--but don't over do it, just make it a natural thing!!

Hope this helps.

Good Luck

Bruce

Hello Tom,
I'm at KIDI, 100 miles sw of you and have 216 hours on my LS. It takes rudder input just as you think the flare is completed. Someday I would like to fly up to your field.

Hello All, Just a quick update on my progress. I am not freaking out
as much while flying in this HEAT!!!! The plane is being tossed all over the place!!!
I feel comfortable landing with full flaps... even forward slips with full flaps!!!! (to get down) I still come in too high sometimes!!!! I have to say my instructor is
the best!!!!! Today we did some landings at 2 local airports. It was about 100 degrees..
a little hazey... and the ride was rocky!!!! I think I am getting the hang of it!!!
I have one more dual x-country to do.... then the solo one.... In central Pa there
are alot of airports at just the right distance from kseg. One thing I really don't like about the ctls is the seat!!! I like to sit straight up. It is hard to get the strap short
enough to make the back straight. I am going to get a pillow!!!!

Tom