Thread: Landing the CTSW

below is a quote from the training forum. the thread got hijacked but the issues are interesting.

Originally Posted by goaround

My sight picture on landing. Why does everything appear as it should on take off, approach etc. but I feel like I'm sitting sideways pointing to the right on roundout/flair and I'm being told right rudder. My last lesson, 10 days ago (i've been busy) I was trying to use a different line(the tape trick) and think I would have had better results had I not had a gusty crosswind. I ain't giving up just yet but I am doubting my ability to safely fly the ct. I have soloed and felt very comfortable in a 150 30 years ago but this little plane is wearing on me.

the ctsw is far more difficult to land then a 152.

there are 3 categories of issues:
1) energy management;
2) sight picture;
3) handling (including rudder dominance)

energy management is most difficult in the ctsw with the throttle closed and full flaps. in this configuration it is important to stay in a good energy state until your mains are inches from the runway. to accomplish this you need to keep your speed up until you rotate, rotate very close to the runway (you need to develop a good sense of where the ground is), and don't over-rotate (avoid ballooning). when in this configuration i think of a level attitude as a stall attitude. if i end up level and speed decaying but more then a couple of feet above the runway I add power to soften the sink rate. using power and limiting flaps makes energy management far easier.

sight picture is a big change in 2 ways. in a power off approach with full flaps my nose is up to 20degrees below the horizon. this is a big adjustment but can easily be learned by making your drooped wingtips level. with the lack of a visible cowling yaw is far harder to perceive. i find the tape trick to be interesting in that it teaches you to crab ( crab could be wrong direction ) and to reduce your crab achieving alignment at the last moment. when you are intersecting, or maintaining the extend runway center line the site picture here is the same as the 152. if the runway looks vertical and not slanted left or right, or if both angles at the approach end are acute your are on the extended center line. the hardest element to perceive due to the lack of cowling is yaw. a good way to tell if you are landing strait is to listen to the mains contacting. if you are strait they will contact together, if you always contact with a moment of time between the two contacts then you are contacting in a crab and allowing the tricycle configuration to straiten you out. i perceive yaw (and pitch attitude) best by looking at the far end of the runway. as well i look at the runway close in front of me and the runway edge. when i look at the far end i see the edge in my peripheral vision.

handling the ctsw vs the 152 requires more coordination, more rudder for coordinated turns while slow in the pattern and more rudder work to achieve and maintain alignment. rotating and flaring take feel, touch and patience, more throttle adjustments may be required. the good news is the ctsw reacts quickly to the throttle and you have more ability to go around. a good confirmation that you have the feel is when you can do landings in a variety of conditions without your hands and feet being "busy".

my 2 cents

Thanks for the input. I'm being taught 15 deg. flaps on landing. I now have about 14 hours in the ctsw and my instructor told me if I can give him 3 good landings next lesson he'll get out.(I don't think he was threatening to quit) Though I'm not totally convinced I feel I may have turned a corner in the last 2 lessons. I feel that my energy management is ok, heck you can trim it up and it will just about fly itself to flair/roundout and I'm fine with that it's just sometimes it just doesn't look right, more yaw than anything.

Are you at idle or with a little power on landing? A little power will make the vertical sink at the bottom a little gentler and give a little more authority to the controls. I use 2800 for just me and 3000 for two up, but I'm not a little guy and the passenger is usually around 190 lbs. This may help you while you are learning.

I'm being taught power to idle abeam the #s though I'm usually adding small amounts to keep the leaves out of the fairings. My biggest problem has been yaw and believe it or not seat adjustment, pins not in the same holes has helped a bunch. Thanks for the replies, I've got a long way to go and I appreciate the input. I really like this plane.

Powers off approach’s are necessary to learn, but I don't recommend it starting out. I teach my students to be 3600rpm on downwind with 0 deg flaps, that will put you around 75-80kts abeam. Set the flaps to 15 at that point, set power to 2600-2800 and pitch for a 400-500fpm descent. That will yield an airspeed of 60 -65 knots for the descending downwind and base. On final adjust the power smoothly to maintain 60 kts decelerating to 54 over the numbers. Keeping a little power in during approach helps reduce the amount of rudder (left) you have to hold in the descent, in the flare it helps you learn the pitch and rudder finesse needed, and softens the blow if you flare to high or balloon slightly. It also keeps you from getting into the lower rpm limit on rollout. Once you learn the sight picture during the flare you can start working on power off approaches and 30 flap approaches.

My couple more cents..

Eric Swisher
Copper City Aviation Services

I agree with Eric. I use 2800 rpm solo, and 3000 two up at all flap settings.

Landing with that sort of rpm's 2800/3600 is great with the big runway's the USA has but i would rapidly run out of runway at my farm strip, about the only time i use continuous power on landing's is in a X wind ..

Whats the seat pins in a different hole idea havent heard that one before ?

Mike

Originally Posted by micromike

Whats the seat pins in a different hole idea havent heard that one before ?

Mike

The pins, if in the same holes on both tracks the seat doesn't sit quite square. I put one pin in the 2 position and one in the 3. It squares the seat for me.

Hi Mike,

Sometimes the seats don't give you a straight ahead view. If you put one seat pin in the #4 hole for instance and the other in the #5 hole you can get the seat to line up any way you want. So by changing one hole from one side of the seat to the other your line of sight changes. Don't move them more than one hole off from each other or you may have the seat come out of the hole or track in flight.

You can land the CT on a 300m strip with power. The guys in the UK challenged me to do this with power. They wanted to run the engine idle down around 1500 rpm to land on grass. That rpm is way to low for the 100 hp Rotax and you run the risk of loosing the engine one day. 1750-1800 ought to be your target for idle for these runways. Your stick will control your speed. You will touch with a slightly more nose up attitude, but it works. When I did the challenge I used 2600 - 2800 rpm. This also gave me better control over the plane. First you must hit at the beginning of the runway, cut power on touch. Plus you would be 100% better off with Matco brakes over the crummy Italian brakes. Any runway behind you at touch is wasted so learning to hit an exact spot makes all the difference on the success. I come in for that type of touch on a very low approach and with 30-40 flaps, but it can work at 15 too.

P.S.
If there is an obstacle at the runway threshold all bets are off. Idle only and 30-40 flaps.

Originally Posted by coppercity

Powers off approach’s are necessary to learn, but I don't recommend it starting out. I teach my students to be 3600rpm on downwind with 0 deg flaps, that will put you around 75-80kts abeam. Set the flaps to 15 at that point, set power to 2600-2800 and pitch for a 400-500fpm descent. That will yield an airspeed of 60 -65 knots for the descending downwind and base. On final adjust the power smoothly to maintain 60 kts decelerating to 54 over the numbers. Keeping a little power in during approach helps reduce the amount of rudder (left) you have to hold in the descent, in the flare it helps you learn the pitch and rudder finesse needed, and softens the blow if you flare to high or balloon slightly. It also keeps you from getting into the lower rpm limit on rollout. Once you learn the sight picture during the flare you can start working on power off approaches and 30 flap approaches.

My couple more cents..

Eric Swisher
Copper City Aviation Services

Eric,

I'm a 70 hour solo student pilot transitioning out of a Cessna 172 into the CTLS and have recently been challenged as others have, to land without some CFI assistance. That is, until today. After re-reading many of the "Landing" posts, including yours, I had a better understanding of downwind speed and rpm, abeam the numbers changes, which helped set me up for a more stabilized base and final. Proper power and airspeed management on base and final are crucial to ensure any chance of making sure that things don't go astray in the final 10 and 5 feet before touch-down. There's plenty to pay attention to in the final few feet, but it's so much easier to handle if you're properly set up to do so. I had 11 pretty good unassisted landings today, with the landing sight-picture, power management and flare all beginning to come together. There's a harmony to it and I had a great morning flying a wonderful aircraft.

An early CFI (she left the flight school for commercial turbine flying) once called me the worst student she'd had in 20 years - and never thought I'd get past the 5th lesson.
If I can learn to fly and land the CTLS - just about anyone can. Thanks to everyone's comments and recommendations - you provide encouragement and sound advice, and clearly, you really make a difference to us rookies.

Philip Ross
CTLS 860LS
7 hours - and loving it!