Thread: Help! I Can't Figure Out When To Flare

I'm working toward my sport pilot license on a CT. Have about 28 hours and am making reasonable progress. At this point the main thing standing between me and a first solo is my inability to flare at the proper moment. I'm either too late and putting it down hard, or too early and ballooning. I just can't seem to get it. We've been using 30 degrees of flaps and coming in at about 55 kts. I've read the many discussions on the thread and know there are many folks out there who strongly favor 0 or 15 degrees. Perhaps that's part of the answer but I still need to judge my height above the runway and so far I'm just not getting it.

Advice gratefully solicited! Please feel free to send me a private message if you prefer.

Originally Posted by markfnkl

..I'm either too late and putting it down hard, or too early and ballooning...

"too late and putting it down hard" if you are landing on the mains then a better way to say it might be "bleeding off the energy too far from the runway"

"too early and ballooning" now it sounds as though you are talking about round out as opposed to flare.

the task is more complex then timing it is more an issue of energy management. speed, stored energy, drag and thrust all play a big part. also the event isn't a simple as a flare. with 30 degrees and a closed throttle you 1st have a glide, then a round out, then perhaps a float and then perhaps a flare or at least holding a landing attitude.

people like 15 degrees or less because it simplifies things. with this approach and a partially open throttle you can achieve a landing attitude at a distance from the ground and simply control your sink rate with pitch and power adjustments and reduce the number of landing phases.

when ballooning it might be a case of too much back pressure and or too much approach speed. the feel is illusive.

Hi Charlie Tango:

Thanks for your very informative reply.

I should have specified: not just "hard," but the instructor said if he hadn't pulled back hard we would have landed on the nose.

You're right: it was really a rounding out too high issue, not a flare issue. I just don't know how high I am.

I asked the instructor to do one landing today, and looking down at the ground, it seemed to me he never really rounded out and floated. We basically just descended to a couple feet, at which point he flared and we touched down, softly, almost immediately. Probably shows how tight the timing is with 30 degrees.

My private instructor never taught me to look out at the far end of the runway to judge the rate of decent. I was focusing on the runway as close to the prop as I could see. Big difference when I learn to use peripheral vision.

John, just to be sure I understand, you're saying that looking down to the end of the runway is helpful in judging your rate of descent?

Concur with looking down towards the far end of the runway and using peripheral vision to judge your height above the runway. Have your instructor be your safety net as you round out and flare, but do look down the runway, not/not right in front of your aircraft. And, learn to use the 30 degree flap position. Save the 15 or 0 degree positions for strong crosswind situations. I'm learning myself, and it will come......really.

Thanks, CT2kflyer. My instructor also encourages me to look down the runway, but I really don't know what I should be looking for or seeing. I do trust that yes, it will come, but in the meantime it's frustrating. I've watched a ton of instructional videos on landings, and it all seems so nice and slow and easy, but when I'm doing it, it seems fast and chaotic!

Try standing in the street and looking down the street, say 6 or 7 houses. Focus on a point or street in front of that house.
Then bend your knees. Slow, fast, always looking down the street. You will notice you ARE aware if you are descending are ascending. Thus, without knowing exactly how high you are above the runway, you will know if you are slowly descending. When I was focused in front of the plane my elevation kept changing until the energy was gone. Now I get safely above the runway and just hold it there. Energy starts bleeding off and it takes a touch more stick back to hold your elevation. Nose starts rising (good), which puts you in your flare. Then the energy starts burning off evenly and dropping you onto the runway nose higher the better as long as your tail does not hit.
I am not very good at "placing it on the numbers", never really tried because the chances of a nose wheel landing goes up. (they suck) I can come in low, slight power until the runway starts; I am only say 4' or so above it. When the runway starts I am between 54-60 depending on flaps (I know this sounds a little fast). By looking way down the runway you can sense whether a wing is high or low better too.
Usually, I can land pretty short, but I never try to. If the runway is long, use it.
This method has worked out the best for me in nasty or unpredictable conditions. I have 800 hour in the CTSW so landings must be a couple thousand now counting pattern work. A light sport just lands differently than say a 172, but it is so responsive, shifty gusts can be safely handled. If a go around is needed, the CT is truly amazing at leaping back into the air the instant the throttle is forward.

Many thanks, John. Some very good suggestions from someone with a ton of experience in the CT. I see what you mean about watching the houses rise and fall as you bend your knees. But here's the thing: if you're coming in over the runway at 4 ft. that would work perfectly. But with 30 degrees of flaps as I'm being instructed I am definitely coming in higher than that. So I just can't hold it over the runway. I need to round out at some point, then get into ground effect, then flare. And knowing at what point to get into ground effect has been tough. Guess ultimately everyone has to develop his own feel for landing, but I will definitely keep in mind the good advice I've received about looking further down the runway and not getting fixated just over the nose.

Thanks and regards,

Mark

to do a 30 degree throttle closed roundout you need to develop a good sense of "where the ground is" prior to take off if you can take a moment and sit at the end of the runway, lined up and allow this sight picture to "burn in"

looking at the far end of the runway is important, but don't fixate on it. reference the far end and see the runway edge in your peripheral vision. but reference other things as well, the runway closer in, the wind sock, the runway edge ... etc.

when looking at the far end of the runway you get the best look at your pitch attitude and can watch it change. a fine degree of pitch attitude control will allow you to keep your nosewheel a little high so it doesn't contact but not very high so you don't balloon.

your observation that your instructor didn't float is a good one. the round out and flare can be one continuous event. the ct can loose energy rapidly and if you don't have much to loose there will be little or no float. if you float too much your approach speed is likely a little high. if you don't float at all and sink too rapidly it is likely a little too slow and of course throttle adjustments can compensate.