Thread: My solo landing in CTSW - video

Hello, I'm a new poster here. I'm currently training for my LSA certification at Hillsdale, Michigan (KJYM). I solo'd last week and thought that someone might get a few chuckles out of my first solo takeoff and landing. My friend happened to have his Olympus still camera that takes video. The video is fuzzy but it's viewable. Not sure how to add links but here goes:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ6BaBoai40[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVypzLOP-vw[/youtube]

Excellent job!

Jim, thanks! I did three landings. On the second landing, I bounced the plane. I've done this before and have been able to just let the plane settle in and make the landing. This time, it appeared that the 2nd bounce might be a little higher than the first so I went to full throttle and did a go 'round. Looking at the video, it appears that I could have let the plane settle in. My third and last landing was a 'beaut. I surprised myself by setting the plane down almost as a short field landing and rolled into the ramp and parked it. I know that the third landing was pure luck on my part due to my lack of experience but it felt good and I wish I could put it in a bottle and use it everytime! Not much wind for all three landings either which REALLY helps! I'm attaching my second and third landings. Sorry about the quality of the videos - it's not very good.

Second landing (with go'round)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRYMOy7_9bA[/youtube]

My third landing.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiVoPBwG7wA[/youtube]

Letting the plane just settle all the time would be a bad habit to get into and will eventually cause you some grief with bent gear. If it is small enough and you have a little speed above stall you may get away with this a few times. Eventually you will train yourself to do this more times than you should and then you will eventually drop the plane. If you like your gear give it about half power on a tiny bounce and get control of the aircraft if you absolutely know you are only a a foot or less off the ground. If you are higher just go full throttle and go around or if the runway is long enough set back up for the landing. If you develope a bad habit now one day you will bounce higher than you think and only give it a little rpm and it won't be enough and by the time you figure that out you are on the ground with bent gear. That bent gear will most likely cost you $1500 on the lite side and bigger bucks for more severe damage.
This approach has caused bent gear and trashed CT's in the past. Bouncing usually means you are milking the stick and you cause a small oscillation and skip off the runway. Use a steady hand and just hold the stick back without pumping or milking the stick. Using some throttle all the way to the ground may help you out. People on the forum use different rpm's at landing, but I think the majority are about 2500-2800 rpm to the ground in all flaps positions and this will make your landings and stick movements more firm and responsive. You are new to the CT and you have plenty of time to learn all the other types of landings and approaches, but now you need to learn good habits and smooth touchdowns without adding more variables on approach and at the roundout to the ground.

Be good it just one landing technique now, the others will follow.

Roger, I have read your posts and you offer sound advice and this is appreciated. Bad habits are something I definitely don't want to develop while I'm learning. I am going to go flying today and the weather conditions look to be perfect. A beautiful fall day in Michigan. I have read your posts and other posts advising some power during final and this will be something I will try today. I believe that I have been doing this trying to stay above the trees that are at each end of the runway at KJYM. Interesting to note that the plane I am flying has had the landing gear and rear lower tail panel replaced due to a hard landing! I actually prefer to fly this '05 CT compared to the '07 CT. It is much softer on landings and in general over the tar strips. Looking at the landing gear bars in the scrap heap at the airport from this '05 and another '07 CT, I see that the diameter of the '05 is much less than the '07. Maybe about 20% less? This is good/bad. It means that the older gear is more compliant (lower rate) but it also means that it will bend at less load. I already had a good appreciation for hard landings after seeing the scrap parts but 'll have a new appreciation for hard landings per your note.

My friend Paul is attending a LSA seminar at Oshgosh and has mentioned he has met a knowledgeable guy by the name of Roger Lee. Are you this person?

Thanks again,

Dick

Originally Posted by Roger Lee

Letting the plane just settle all the time would be a bad habit to get into and will eventually cause you some grief with bent gear...

Roger, you must factor in:

Originally Posted by Dick

I bounced the plane. I've done this before and have been able to just let the plane settle in and make the landing. This time, it appeared that the 2nd bounce might be a little higher than the first so I went to full throttle and did a go 'round. Looking at the video, it appears that I could have let the plane settle in.

we are talking about letting it settle after an initial bounce. Roger you are a fan of landings where your let it settle, steady stick, faster speed, ... etc. so you statement doesn't make sense out of this context. if you were close to the runway and bounce or balloon up you are now slower and higher and likely at a higher angle of attack (closer to stall) so now letting it settle becomes a bad habit and either a go around or at least more power are called for. you have delicate gear and a rapid sink rate is easy to develop so unless you are within inches you have to control that sink rate.

sometimes controlling that sink rate means letting it settle ( blut slowly enough. ) we all like the landings where we graudually hold it off for a long time ( even full aft stick ) but when the lift runs out we are also contacting the runway.

you fundamentally have 2 choices, hold it off and prevent it from settling ( this works only so long ) or permit it to settle at an acceptable sink rate. reducing sink can be done with throttle and or increasing angle of attack ( to a point ) in a ctsw a feel must be developed to increase angle of attack without ballooning. i find that balooning at times is inevitable, ( i rarely bounce ) so the skills to make these adjustments are more often needed in a ctsw then in a skyhawk.

Hi Ed,

Looking forward to seeing you an Erin at Page.

My thoughts are more geared towards a newer pilot to the CT. If it is a tiny (4"-12") skip or bounce holding it off does work provided you aren't already at or under stall, but you need to be careful you don't start to oscillate or skip down the runway and make each consecutive skip worse. You and I have a lot of time in the CT and some of this is just second nature. To a newer pilot in the CT this may get him in trouble because he may get behind the speed/power curve and then he wouldn't have time to correct the first error.
You made my point partly. Some skips or bounces are small enough with enough speed to let it settle back down for a nice landing. The point you kind of made for me was when do you know as a low time CT pilot whether you have enough speed to let it settle, are too nose high not to let it settle, too close to stall, unconsciously milking the stick to try and smooth it out, ect.... The low time pilot needs a narrower good verses bad landing technique criteria so he either doesn't smack the gear or doesn't develope a bad habit that gets him into trouble.

Knowing the difference between good and bad for you and I is now easier, but for a newer Ct pilot it may not be so clear cut and the action needed to mitigate the problem is not second nature or may not be quick enough.

It's the skills you and I bring to the table he doesn't have yet so removing some of the variables until a person has those skills may keep someone out of the marginal areas. If you can perfect just one type of landing then usually that skill will bleed over to your other landing configurations. That's when a new pilot to the CT, in my opinion, should branch out to all other landing styles or techniques. Then he/she can develope what works best for them just like you and I have. You and I have different styles. Neither is right or wrong, but just different and they work for us.

roger,

i agree with your latest post but.

back to your previous, you say that letting it settle would be a bad habit that would lead to bent gear. i can only guess what you mean by this and it can't really be helpful if it isn't clear.

we know we can't just descend into the runway so at some point it has to settle. once you round out you have to get the rest of the way down. as i said there are 2 approaches, one to hold it off by gradually increasing aoa the second is to merely let it settle ( and soften the sink rate with throttle to achieve soft contact. ) with either approach or more likely a blend of the two you still have to allow it to settle and contact.

settle and contact is necesarry so saying that it is a bad idea that will lead to damage is just plain confusing.

if i can't get your meaning i bet dick can't either

Hi Ed,

My comment on settling is in reference to a bounce back in the air not on the initial round out and touch. I was trying to relay not to just sit there after you bounce or skip off the runway back in to the air and then just let it settle. A new CT pilot may not know when or how much power to add at that critical juncture. I wasn't talking about approach, round out or the first touch, only the second or third touch when your first touch down doesn't stay on the ground. I am also referencing the lack of CT experience in a scenario that may require more experience at that vary interesting moment compared to other high time CT pilots.

thanks roger,

i couldn't agree more, after a bounce ( or a balloon ) i instinctively know that i have to advance the throttle.