Thread: My solo landing in CTSW - video

Originally Posted by CharlieTango

we know we can't just descend into the runway so at some point it has to settle. once you round out you have to get the rest of the way down. as i said there are 2 approaches, one to hold it off by gradually increasing aoa the second is to merely let it settle ( and soften the sink rate with throttle to achieve soft contact. ) with either approach or more likely a blend of the two you still have to allow it to settle and contact.

Did several 0 deg flap landings tonight in calm conditions at ADS. As usual, patterns are never the same twice due to lots of different speed traffic. Always came in with too much energy, but that's fine on a 7000 strip in the middle of built up area (better to have too much energy if the engine quits than too much - nowhere else to land).

Rounding out at about 65 kt and holding the airplane off was a joy with the calm conditions. I eventually let it settle at about 45 kt - well before stall - and did the wheelie almost as long as I could. Trying to keep the CT off with full aft stick in full stall will probably result in striking the tail skid unless you're using 30 or 40 flaps, IMHO.

Doug

Great dialog here. I can actually feel and see the landings being described by you guys when I read your notes. Thank you for taking your time to do this. I am learning what you already know, correctly flairing the CT during the final few feet of landing is a very sensitive process. Your comments regardin "bounces" are well taken and as you point out, there are "low" bounces - maybe one foot or less and there are "high" bounces. For the "low" bounces, I know that I'm just about on the ground so I let the plane settle by just keeping some back pressure on the stick. For the high bounces, I must make a quick assessment of the situation. I seem to "milk" the stick, knowing that too much back pressure will cause the plane to gain altitude or too little sets it down too hard with ensuing higher bounce. Ugh! Don't want to go there. I guess my point here is that I don't just let the plane settle on the higher bounces but I work the stick to modulate the sink of the plane. Roger adds another dimension which is a "squirt" of power that is correctly timed to ease the drop. I'm working on this but it ain't easy to bring this into the process! All of this in a few second time frame. I'm working on not bouncing in the first place but this separates the men from the boys and it is taking me many hours of practice to get this fine line connection between stick input and response of the CT. Slight gusts of wind cause non linear responses of this plane due to it's low weight and high glide ratio. One must be ready to react and know how to react when it wants to fly or wants to drop unexpectedly.

I have a little more difficult time at Hillsdale due to tall trees at each end of the runway which prevents me from just getting into my final leg and setting up a glide slope with 55 to 60 kts. air speed. Many times, due to my inexperience, I might come in too low for the tree line and have to add some power to carry the trees. This puts me behind the plane for all next phases of the landing and I come in too high and too fast. At airports where there are no obstructions and I can set up my glide slope, things go much better, even in X winds. But, this is flying and this is what draws me to it. I'm having fun but do get frustrated at times.

Thanks again for your replies.

Dick

dick,

your landing types ( you tend to bounce ) say something about your technique.

if you balloon all the time then you don't have a feel for rounding out and or you are fast.

if you bounce a lot you are realizing too fast a sink rate from too high above the runway. the ct runs out of energy very quickly during and after round out. to reduce bouncing in the first place some fixes are, 1)flatter approach, 2) less flaps, 3) more power, 4) better sense of where the ground is, 5) better sense of sink rate after round out, and 6) ability to make well timed and precise throttle adjustments.

1,2 and 3 above have their downsides and might need to be reversed for short fields or clearing obstacles.

you can help 4, and 5 by sitting at the end of the runway, prior to takeoff and letting the sight picture burn in. remember what it looks like to be level on the ground. all designs have different sight pictures here and if you don't know it well you have to allow settling at a low sink rate and wait for contact.

imo the best landings in a ctsw look different due to the high need for energy management. i like to idle in with 30 degrees and this results in a nose low approach attitude and i keep the nose low until i get very low. i attempt to round out very close to the runway and allow it to settle / flare very soon after round out. the result of this energy management is that i am in a good energy state until i am both slow and inches from the runway.

landings come with practice and learning to adjust. it can be easy at first to realize that you are sinking fast and are at risk for a firm contact but it can be hard to do more than watch it happen. 1st step is recognition and 2nd step is making the adjustment.

One of the biggest problems I see with students learning to land is that they don't look (focus) at the right place at the right time. Just prior to rounding out and starting the flare, I teach students to look down the runway about 1000 feet or so (LSA landing speeds) and to no longer look in front of them where they wanted to touchdown. It seems that pilots get fixated on looking at the aiming point during the approach and they never look up to get a feel for their rate of descent and other visual cues. Looking up and away down the runway will help with the timing and amount of round-out needed on the stick. When fixating on the aiming point, what happens is that at some point the pilot feels like the runway is rushing up at them and they pull back on the stick too much to prevent a hard landing. That directly sends them into a balloon situation. Just remember to stop looking at the aiming point and look down the runway before it's time to land and you'll be able to land just about any airplane.

Wingbolt,

Where are you in Az?

wingbolt, really good point.

the ctsw requires precise pitch control at roundout, looking far down the runway gives you the perspective you need for that precise control

for me it happens in two stages, stage 1 is a roundout very near the ground, this is where the precision is required. i want just enough nose up to keep my nose wheel from contacting and not enough to allow me to balloon. after some speed bleeds off in this configuration i can then raise my nose without ballooning and approach a stall as i settle those last few inches.

this technique allows for soft dead stick landings.

If looking down the runway is a problem with students then that is what the instructor should correct right up front. When I learned to fly helicopters it was the same problem. When learning in a helicopter looking just outside put you all over the map. Looking down the runway and finding a focus point fixed that. Those CFI's new that and made that correction in the first 5 minutes of hover time. After you flew a while you could then look anywhere you wanted.
Unfortunately CFI's do not always make good instructors. They passed a test and that was it. Passing a test isn't synonymous with good instructor or knowledgable about different characteristics of different planes. Most CFI's learned and trained in the GA world and in Cessna's and don't have the same experience level in LSA.

Hi Roger,
I'm in Willcox. I flew my Pietenpol to Tombstone today and a gentleman named Mike very graciously gave me a ride in his CT. Great airplane!!! He also gave me your card. Thanks for the comments on the other topic regarding how the CT does as a trainer.
Phil LeRoy

Hi Phil,

Mike called me and said you two met. I might fly down tomorrow.