Thread: 300m landings

Hey Malt,

Skys are blue, 80F and 10% humidity.

I took your 300m landing challenge to heart. I just had to try it because I have never had to do it before. Here are my results.

This was on a paved airstrip and of course much longer over all. No obstructions on either end.
My first 2 landings I have to admit were long and would have run off the end of a 300m (975') runway.
The next ones were good. I had to adjust my way of thinking. I just came in very flat with 40 flaps and 45-50 knots airspeed. My engine idles at 1800. The first good one was at idle. I set it down right at my threshold mark. So up I went again, but at 2600rpm. I still came in at 45-50 knots because a kept the stick back to control that speed and still set it on my threshold mark. The only difference in this landing was I was more nose high. Setting the wheels down at the very beginning of the runway at either rpm still gave me the same touchdown speed and all I needed then was brakes. I had at least 800' to apply brakes from a speed right at 37-40 knots at actual wheel touchdown. Coming in flat was certainly the key. Now if you lose the engine that flat then you won't make the runway. Leaving my throttle at 1800-2600 gave me an edge over losing an engine over very low idle. I had a much better chance of keeping my engine over 1400-1500rpm where it is more likely to quit.
So as I see it you may be trying to come in with the plane more level or even nose down where with the extra rpm I was able to keep the nose up more and always touch mains first. The nose was down at 1800, but was more up hanging on 2600. The stick and setup controlled it all regardless of rpm. Coming in with the nose higher can present a problem if you lost an engine 15'-20' off the deck.

one way to safen up that flat approach is to slip.

i can land in 300m, the best are when no throttle is required. not a lot of obstructions around here so if i aim short and and depend on the throttle it's easy.

the tarmac runway requires more braking than grass or dirt.

Hi Ed,

The tarmac does require more braking. You just roll better for takeoffs and landings.

Glad you tried it Roger was it good or scary
Interesting thought on the nose up attitude & i'll give it a try next time I fly. 45- 50 is a speed I wouldn't come in at... no less than 50 even if it's still air...I will also give that a try ... with altitude first!
Thanks for the feedback.
Mal

Malt,

You can do it all day long at 50 knots. No need to go lower. I would suggest you take your own plane up and put in 40 flaps and see how slow you can fly and see where stall really is. I'm at about 38-39 knots. 45 knots isn't real bad, but doesn't leave any room for error or a little change in a wind. 50 knots never bothers me. It wasn't scary for me because I was on a 5500' runway. I just marked off 1000'. The big key for me was 30 or 40 flaps and making sure I touched down right at the threshold each time and I made sure I wasn't over 50 knots. The flatter I came in the easier it was. But like I said if you lost the engine then making the runway wasn't going to happen.
Can you come in really flat on approach or do you have something to clear on your approach?
I'm sure it might be different for me if I really only had 300m to look at for real. The key is to forget the last 800' because you know if you set it down in the first 175' then you can get it stopped if you actually touched down at 40-45 knots. So focusing on the exact wheel touchdown point is the most important thing to keep in your minds eye.
This type of training is what we all should do to practice for the day we lose and engine and need to put it down in a short distance. The key will be to hit and exact spot you are looking at and make it slow.


Roger H,
This is for you too. Give it some thought for some fun and games at the Fly-In.

You know back in the good Ol'e days when I flew more ultralights we had fly-in's and I would put on a little games for fun competition.
It made everyone go practice which made them all better.

1. We had a line drawn on the runway and who ever could touchdown with their mains closest to the line. Done with power.
2. We had a idle only for the same line. You had to be at idle when you turned on final.
3. We had a real dead stick (engine off) spot landing.

These first three were so competitive that if your wheels were not within 6' you did not place in the top 3 people. These 3 exercise when practiced will make you very very good. I know some don't like a full engine off, but you could do the first two.

4. We had a bomb drop from 100'-300' depending with a target on the ground. Lots of fun.
5. We would have a team of 2. A pilot and a ground person. The pilot at 100' dropped a raquetball and the guy on the ground had a big fishnet . The type with a handle. You got points depending on how many bounces it took before you caught the ball. Fewer bounces more points. Loads of laughs to watch guys chasing that ball. Funniest Home Video stuff.

Roger H,


How about a rally type event. Two person teams. Preselect 5-6 targets or spots on the ground at between 5-10 miles apart for spacing. Each target is in a sealed envelope. You can't open the next target envelope until you believe you have found that particular target. Give each team a compass heading and an airspeed and time to target in each envelope. You can't open the first envelope until roll out on takeoff. They take off and have to locate the target and right it down. When they find it they open another envelope and have to find the second target and so on. They can not open another envelope until they locate each target. When they have found all 5-6 targets they come home. The fastest time with all the correct written targets wins. This would be about navigation, speed, time, working together as a unit and target acquisition.

Hi guys!

I am the italian dealer of flight Design and we normally operate on a 300m paved strip. We have also a lot of grass strips all around italy from 300 to 500m.
If you want to travel to Italy and make experience on a short landings, you are welcome. We can also rent a plane to you and flight over Italy. We can also provide all the gps informations for a safe flight.

Look at the pictures in my site www.flyflare.com

Ciao
Alfredo