Thread: Hey from Las Vegas NV USA

Hello I'm Mike from Las Vegas,
I have been flying Flight Sims since the apple IIe days and have decided that I am finally ready to take flying lessons I want to go for the sport cert first then private, then see where it goes from there.
While researching this endeavor (I plan on starting in the fall) I have decided that The CT might be the perfect aircraft for my sport flying. I was pleasantly surprised to find this board while looking for a CT aircraft to load into my sims FSX, and X-Plane-9.

Haven't found an instructor yet so if there is anyone near southern Nevada drop me a line.

Thanks,
Mike

An Evektor Sportstar is a better LSA trainer.

Best is PPL and a Cessna 150.

Been there, still doing it.

I purchased a CTSW in Feb 2007 with the idea that I would fly it occassionaly on long trips, and lease it to a flight school for the remainder of the time. The owner of the flight school is a highly experienced pilot who primarily teaches CFI's in light-sport aircraft. When my CTSW finally arrived, and after both of us went through basic transition training, we took it out to put it through its paces to see how well it would perform as a trainer. It turns out that the CTSW is a lot to handle, particularly for an average student pilot, and the owner of the flight school decided that it would not be a good idea to use it as a trainer. Shortly after I learned that, I had the opportunity to discuss this with a CFI who is very experienced with the CT in NV, and he also told me that after training one student in the CT he would not do it again, even though he was happy with the quality of student he turned out, because it was much more challenging than a typical trainer. Based on my experience, I would make the somewhat exaggerated analogy that it would make as much sense to train in the CTSW as it would to do student training in the Lancair IV The CTSW is more like a high-performance aircraft than a trainer. It would make more sense to train in a CTLS. I know there are flight schools outside NV that offer training in the CTSW, but its my opinion that it would be much easier to train in a more docile aircraft, such as the CTLS. The one thing that makes the CTSW difficult to train in is that it requires a lot of rudder skill, much more so than any typical trainer.

I'm curious how do you know that an LS would make a better trainer. Have you flown one? Have you trained someone in it?

I also know pilots that have trained in the CT and it worked out fine. Opinions on this subject go both ways - some beleive it to be fine some don't but I don't think the LS has been around enough to make it's judgement call as yet.

(my highly experienced high time pilot trainer loves it )

Roger H

My opinion that the CTLS would make a better trainer than the CTSW is primarily based on the experience of others who have flown the CTLS, and what FD has stated about the new CTLS design.

What makes the CTSW a poor choice for a trainer in particular is the yaw instability that requires significant rudder skill.

FD has stated that the yaw characteristics have been significantly reduced by lengthening the fuselage, and other changes made. Other pilots have reported that changes made to the CTLS have in fact reduced the yaw instability significantly, making it much more suitable as a trainer.

Although the analaogy to the Lancair IV is an exaggerated one, it does highlight the kind of skill required in a high-performance aircraft that one does not encounter in a docile trainer.

I dont think its a bad thing that a high-performance aircraft is harder to fly, but that does mean that it will also be a lot harder to use as a trainer.

Two CFI's that I know and trust, who have a vast amount of experience both in the CT and all kinds of ultralights and gliders tell me that the CTSW is not a good choice for a trainer. A third CFI that I know less well, but who also is a dealer in CT's, has also experssed the same opinion.

If a potential student pilot asks for a recommendation for trainer, given the choice of a CTSW or CTLS, I would definitely recommend the CTLS as a first choice.

Would you also make the same recommendation?

Thanks everyone for your input.

Jim why do you feel the Evektor Sportstar is a better trainer?

Sorry I wasn’t more specific. I am looking at the CTLS. I realize I’m far from an expert here but it seems to me that the CTLS would be more stable by design than the CTSW. The way I understand it the SW has a shorter wing and is shorter over all. Does anyone know if the LS feels more stable than the SW?

Thanks again,
Mike

No I couldn't make that recommendation as yet. I've flown the LS and it seemed just like an SW to me - still had to use my feet. Yes a 150 or 172 has no where near the foot pedal movement required but who said making a pilot is easy and why should we make it easy - you ought to be well trained period. If you learn on something that requires more skill you be better for the lessor stuff!

I usually base my opinions on facts or fact that we don't have yet. If you look around there are some fine pilots that learned in their CT - young and old alike, some even with disabilities. No it's not as easy as some other planes but that's not to say you can't be trained in it. I would say if you are trained in it you are a better pilot in the end, and I believe we need better pilots. (I don't believe we've trained a pilot in the LS as yet)

I personally think the yaw thing is a bunch of crap. Sure it's sensitive but you learn it just like you do the rest of the procedures. I only wish I had been trained in the beginning to use my feet - would have saved additional flight instructor time later.

The fact of the matter in my mind is these are both great planes and both can be used for instruction and yep the SW is tougher in some respects then a 150 and maybe an LS. A new student should shop around, check out all aspects and make his or hers own decision.

I would also wait on purchasing an LS. It's still in the "ironing out" stages. Let's give it a year and see what gives. Let's also give Osh Kosh a wait and see what FD has up it's sleeve!

Roger H

Mike the SW does not have a shorter wing then the LS. The LS wing tips are certainly different however.

Roger H

Hi Roger,

The difficulties with yaw are not "a bunch of crap", any more than difficulties with a tail-dragger is a "bunch of crap".

Why do some pilots have bumper stickers that read "REAL PILOTS FLY TAIL DRAGGERS" ?

Taking the idea that we need good pilots, and the best way to get them, is to train them in the most demanding aircraft is not something supported by most CFI's I have talked to; and, from a non-CFI perspective (mine), it doesnt make a lot of sense to subject a prospective pilot to the greatest difficulty possible in hopes of improving the pilot population.

From a teaching perspective, it does make a lot of sense to start with something easy and progress as time and money allow.

Thats the model that Cessna has successfully used for a very long time, and there is no reason for us to believe that somehow that good common sense goes out the window for the CT or any other LSA.

This is, of course, assuming that the CTLS is a better trainer than the CTSW. AFAIK, it is, but you are right that time will tell.

thorp

All good points...I just hope your info isn't coming from that So Calif dealer called sports planes west!

Many of the CT accidents were probably due to rudder control or lack there of - my favorite is the two instructors who hopped in thinking they knew what they were doing and plopped her down!

We had two crashes here in the last four days (I helped scrape one off the runway) - not in CT's and very minor injuries - both totaled the planes. Both very recent pilots. Are we doing enough training and are we doing it in easier to operate airplanes - send them out - they get in a little "hotter" one and get in trouble. Just food for thought!


And you're right "bunch of crap" was probably not the best term. It's just that I have over two hundred hours in my CT. At first I had to work on keeping the ball centered - now it seems natural. I just get a little flustered with some of the stuff I hear. At the show in Arlington last week a dealer for another LSA was told by the above mentioned group that a pilot has been killed in a CT along with a bunch of other "wrong stuff". The fact is two pilots have been killed - one was a test pilot for FD and the other an Italian doing acrobatics - none in this country as he was led to believe.

The CT is the best selling aircraft in the US and it's for a reason...230ish pilots can't be wrong. Many of them are new pilots, many of them old pilots, many low hour, many hi hour. Many trained in the CT - many not. The same goes for the other more then thousand CT's flying around the world. Some are trainers, some are tow planes, some tow banners, some set around the world records, some are on floats and so on and so on.

Sure you'll find one that might be easier on the pedals, or one that might be easier on the gas, etc. but when you add it all up - you won't beat it!!!


Roger H