Thread: low-vis night landings

I have been experimenting with night landings when I can't see where the runway surface is (e.g. no landing light). Here is what I like. My normal flaps zero over the numbers speed is 60 knots. I go to 55 knots, add a smidge of power and wait. That keeps the nose up nicely, waiting for the mains to touch. Then, I pull power and let the nose touch. Anyone have a better technique for this? - WF

On floats we call that a glassy water landing. Set up the approach speed you want, set power to about 200 fpm decent, and wait for it to touch. Works well.

with 0 flaps your pitch angle sends the beam from the landing light well down the runway. Night is one time where I prefer to use flaps, but I don't fly at night in high winds. I practice all combinations when getting night-current.

I have not flown a CT, so my advice is general here.

I normally advocate a full-stall, full flap landing. I like to see the stick all the way back and the stall warning blaring on touchdown.

Night landing without a landing light is one of the rare exceptions - its too dangerous to stall the plane when you're not 100% sure of your height, and judging height by runway light perspective alone is tricky at best.

My advice is to use the same flaps you're used to. Add a tiny bit of speed (5k?) to your normal approach. Do the same "roundout" you normally do to ease into ground effect, but then let the plane continue slowly sinking until ground contact is made. This will be a little faster and little flatter than a normal touchdown, so be quick with corrections after touchdown to avoid swerving.

This is all MUCH trickier in a tailwheel plane, but it will still work if you're fast with forward stick at touchdown. On a nosewheel, just keep the stick where it is on touchdown and the plane should stay planted.

Forums are a great place to seek advice. But remember, nothing can take the place of an experienced instructor to help you through a transition like this.

Good luck!

eddie,

the ctsw is a different beast. few ctsw pilots advocate full stall landings, personally i prefer them most of the time. i also like full flaps and a closed throttle which leads to a nose low approach and a round out that is like playing chicken with the ground. bad juju for night with or without landing light.

i choose a flap / power setting that results in a nose up pitch attitude (probably 15 degrees and enough power for 60kts) and reduce power slowly to achieve controlled settling.

...and reduce power slowly to achieve controlled settling.

There's lots of room for varying techniques - and if a certain technique works for you consistently, I'd say stick with it.

That said, landing in general is a lot like juggling - the fewer balls in the air the easier it is. IOW, just judging height, increasing pitch at the appropriate rate, controlling drift with aileron and runway alignment with rudder, all make for a pretty full plate for many pilots (to mix metaphors).

Add in manipulating the throttle and it can push an already complex task over the edge. Along similar lines, I've heard of pilots using trim while in the roundout and flare - again, I don't like it for the same reason.

As an instructor, I often have to reduce things to their simplest form. As such, I try to get the student to get the plane to a "keyhole" on final where power can be reduced to idle. Throttle is then one less thing to worry about, making the landing easier in general. Along similar lines, if a technique involves landing with a little power, I'd rather have that power set in early and left alone.

But again, an experienced pilot may be able to add power and even trim manipulations to their landing sequence - but that's a lot of balls in the air for many beginning and low-time pilots.

eddie,

you seem to be changing the subject from night landings without a landing light to keeping it simple for beginners.

in the context of night landings without light, it is paramount that the pitch attitude be set up nose high early enough. the ctsw can easily be nose down just to maintain 1.3 x Vso. the ctsw with full flaps and throttle closed is in a stall attitude when level. it is tricky to land unless you minimize flaps and keep power in.

you seem to be changing the subject from night landings without a landing light to keeping it simple for beginners.

Sorry.

I've just found a lot of things that keep things simple for beginners also work pretty well as one becomes more experienced.

the ctsw can easily be nose down just to maintain 1.3 x Vso. the ctsw with full flaps and throttle closed is in a stall attitude when level. it is tricky to land unless you minimize flaps and keep power in.

I'd love a demo! If you ever need a destination in the southeast, please keep me in mind!

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B.

I've just found a lot of things that keep things simple for beginners also work pretty well as one becomes more experienced.

no argument untill we start talking about the night landings in a ctsw (and other ct designs?)

in order to stay within glide to the runway my typical landing approach is to close the throttle abeam the numbers, as soon as i get 62 kts i deploy 30 degrees of flaps and push forward from level to 20+degrees nose down (according to my efis) to maintain a glide at 55kts. it really isn't keeping it simple because it requires a dramatic round out very close to the ground with the flare and round out being a somewhat continuous event (no float at that speed and my usual elevation 7,100') its not real simple but does provide for contacting at minimum speed.

i've never flown a design that needs either minimal flaps, power or a nose low pitch attitude to remain in a good energy state until i flew a ctsw. at night with landing light out the low pitch attitude is a poor choice so adopting a landing attitude early and controlling sink with the throttle as needed is the better choice.

For my students learning night landings, or just landings in general in the CT I prefer a 0-15 flap approach with about 2600 rpm on final. That will yeild a 55-60 knot approach at 300-500fpm descent. This approach configuration can be kept all the way to touchdown, ending up in a soft field landing technique. I use this for several reasons. It adds protection if the student starts the round out to early, it reduces the workload of the yaw control on final with power changes, and seems to smooth out the students pitch inputs a bit. Once they master the roundout and flare sight picture, we move on to the 30-40 flap approaches and those nice short landings the CT can do. The odd thing about the CT besides the landing sight picture is increased flap settings don't really increase the descent rate greatly, only the pitch down required and the approach speed of course. For those no landing light landings a soft field style landing works well for me because it allows me to feel for the ground, especially at airports unfamiliar or with really bright runway lights you can't control.

Regards
Eric Swisher
Copper City Aviation Services