Thread: NEW "Loaded" CTLS

As many have mentioned from Sebring, FD is going to market a completely loaded CTLS with the tan interior and Dynon 10" screens. Just read it on AOPA's daily news. Wonder how much this is going to set back a buyer? I really like the 10" screen as I mentioned in another thread, but I think the upgrade will always be cheaper than a trade/purchase of a new one. Any ideas on $$$?

John

The one shown at Sebring was just under $160,000.

At 160K I am wondering who their target market is. Maybe affluent older pilots that do not want a GA aircraft and having to get their private pilots license? You can buy a heck of a used GA plane for 160K that would be full IFR capable. Not as economic mind you as a CT, but IFR if you need it. Or maybe this is just kinda what happens to most everything. The car guys bring out an inexpensive commuter car and 5 years later it is some over priced behemoth that looks nothing like the original. In the computer biz they call it 'Feature Creep'.

Heck, you can darn near buy to SW's for 160,000!

If it was my "boat to guide" I'd be marketing a striped down model of the SW for $99,995 (no stock/order only), a $129.990 LS and then the top end LS. Not sure where the MC fits in the mix!

Roger H

David, I went to the FD USA's website to find out what the "economy" CTSW would cost. I was going to make a point that a buyer with deep pockets could go with the CTLS with Dynon SkyView panels and Garmin G3X for the $160's but FD still offered a "Yugo" CTSW with steam gages for someone who just wanted to get into the sky with a minium amount of money with probably one of the safest and most fun S-LSA's made. An airplane that would still be a X-country traveler if one had a 396 Garmin. I ran into a problem presenting this viewpoint. There wasn't any information for the CTSW on FD USA's website. When one clicks on "Aircraft", the only offerings are CTLS and MC. No CTSW to be found. Anyone here know if the CTSW is no longer offered?

There are probably a few reason why it's not offered in this country any more - I think the main reason is the LS is an "upgrade" from the SW. Many of the short comings in the SW were worked on, changed, improved, etc. and the outcome was the LS.

There are certainly SW's available around the states, some new, some low hour and most at reasonably good prices. You'll find that those of us with SW's are very satisfied with the plane and personally don't feel the need to change models.

Its true you can get a nice GA plane for 160k, but you can't fly it as a sport pilot. If you are downsizing from say a Cirrus or a G1000 equipped Cessna or Piper and only able to exercise the privileges of a sport pilot then the new Skyview Dynon system will be right up your alley. I think for a flight school it would be useful too since you could do sport pilot thru instrument and TAA training in one cheap to fly airplane. I assume the MC will fill the gap of the SW for the US even though the performance is not as good as a lighter SW. I'm sure its easier to land though!

Eric

My personal opinion and it may not be the same as someone else's. The CT is still the best, but out of our price range.

I wrote a long post about current FD pricing. Then and maybe for the better I lost it.

I personally feel FD has gotten way too expensive and will and are losing sales because they have priced themselves out too far for their target consumer. They will sell less and start to suffer from it. More is not always better when it cost you sales. The mfg's. in any market today will survive by marketing and pricing for the average targeted consumer and not the rich or the top few percent of the targeted consumer. You can sell more CT's at $110K than you ever would at $160. It was hard enough for most of us to flip for the $110K - $120K. Now that everyone's retirement, stock portfolios and world economy is adjust to new times the price continues to climb. Many have turned away from a CT just because of the price. I think FD sold the most in 2006 and in 2007 and later the prices climbed and I think the number of CT sales fell. Today people talking to me say it is a nice plane, but too costly.

FD I know you read this forum:
Be the best, but do it for your bread and butter targeted consumer. I want FD to grow and prosper as much as anyone, but becoming too expensive for any mfg. will hurt a company.

I just want the 10" screens for mine and, especially, the carpet! However, if you have to completely change out the "mushroom", I can forget it also due to expense. I agree that the cost is getting out of hand even though I was looking at a Corvalis 400 before buying this (so this thing looks cheap comparatively!) There's one other thing out there that keeps sticking in the back of my head that is going to eventually come to the forefront for these planes and that is FUEL. 5GPH on auto gas is way better than 13-18gph of avgas. I keep telling myself that these prices are going to go back to $4-5/gal and soon. When China and India wake back up and the economy gets started, our prices are going to go through the roof! I gave a talk to about 60 EAA guys Tuesday night and they were very interested in the GPH burn. I think that's going to be a major selling point.

John

Roger, I totally agree with you. I am not a business person so perhaps FD's business model supports their switch to offering luxury level aircraft while eliminating entry level aircraft. My gut feeling is that this is not the direction Flight Design should be going in this economic climate. Anemic sales of new LSA aircraft seem to support this viewpoint. Of course, if Korea, China or South American start spitting out luxury LSA's at 2/3rds the price of CTLS's, all of this discussion will be a moot point. FD needs to consider bringing the CTSW back in it's base form. This might wet the appetites of buyers and get them into the showrooms to start buying once (if?) the economy starts coming back.