Thread: Newbie out of Santa Fe, NM with questions...

Hi CT'ers,

I'm considering purchasing a new CTSW for operations out of Santa Fe, NM, elev. 6344', with density altitudes routinely over 9000. I'm curious to hear from some of you who operate in the west.

If I pitch the prop so 5500 RPM is available, what sort of climb rates and cruise speeds can I expect? I routinely operate at 9500 MSL, and density altitude could exceed 12,000. Will this airplane do it? What is the max cruise speed at such an altitude if I repitch the prop? (I'm an ATP with current medical; max speed is less of an issue for me than for a sport pilot.)

Is the 10,000' max. cruise altitude mandatory for operations with better than a sport pilot certificate? I pays to be able to get to 12,000 at times.

Part of the reason for the purchase would be to operate in a training environment. Is this an appropriate aircraft for sport pilot training? (It gets windy here...what would you say is the max wind speed you'd recommend for new pilots?)

Any help you can provide would be very useful.

Thanks very much.

Marc Coan,
Santa Fe, NM

Marc,

The aircraft is not limited to 10,000' only a pilot with sport pilot privileges is limited to 10k. if you have a higher level certificate and and valid medical the limitation does not apply to you.

the ctsw is up to the job in terms of altitude. my ctsw fly's out of mammoth yosemite airport ( 7,100 MSL ) . it is both faster and climbs better then my old skyhawk with a 180hp STC.

the weak link for your mission is the gear which can take only limited abuse as well as the responsiveness and rudder dominant flight characteristic.

it is the kind of trainer that results in student pilots with very good stick and rudder skills and as well would require a skilled instructor.

i pitch for 5,500 rpm @ 10,000' and i true at around 125kts in the winter. even with a flatter pitch in the summer speeds go down a bit.

The CTLS has a sturdier gear than the CTSW. Then there is the all metal version coming soon. I think they call it the MC for metal concepts(?). It has a wider cockpit and more headroom since it has wing struts. It will be positioned as an entry level trainer.

Hello Marc. Just down the road from you. Base, and have operated, our 2008 model CTSW out of Double Eagle II airport in Albuquerque for the past year. Great aircraft, good performance even in high density altitude. Another CTSW just joined us at Double Eagle two weeks ago. I have flown N44BZ into and out of SAF a number of times even with summer temps pushing the DA up and it performs extremely well...climbs as good as my 182 at similar DAs. Will be happy to discuss futher with you if you wish.

Pitch the prop for more climb performance, and you'll still see 110kt cruise. Climb rates won't be like a SR22 turbo, but you should be able to keep up with a 182.

Doug

Originally Posted by Doug

Pitch the prop for more climb performance, and you'll still see 110kt cruise...Doug

doug,

on a prior thread i tried to challenge your statement that 'if you have a need for speed, use a coarser pitch' but i don't think you got my meaning. the quote above seems to say that if you pitch for climb you will be slower [ 110kt cruise ]

the truth is that using a flatter pitch ( 5,500 and 5,800 being the limitations, 5,500 makes the most sense ) provides more climb and more speed.

a coarser / cruise pitch provides more economy not more speed. if a formula one racer was preparing for the reno air races he would install his climb prop for best speed.

C.Tango... you have a Warp drive prop, yes?
I have a three blade Neuform, and I am thinking they both perform a little different depending on RPM.
I believe a Warp drive prop performs a little better at high rpm when flattened, I think the Neuform (some how) looses some efficiency when flattened to reach the RPMs you are set at.
I am also starting to think the 800 hours on my prop may have started to take a small speed toll.
I have not done the experiments planned with the now approved lighter Kasper props.
1) CTSW flys very well above the 14,000' service ceiling. Period.
2) CTs deal with high winds extremely well. (I have experienced your Mammoth rotor while landing at Bishop)
3) The high responsiveness of the CTSW controls requires a CFI familiar with the handling of the aircraft to teach good skills to a student. Then, that student to will be able to handle amazing winds reliably and safely.

Sorry Charlie Tango,

but I think there is impossible that a flatter pitch " provides more climb and more speed ". It is one of the two : climb versus speed . A coarser pitch is giving you more speed than a flatter pitch ( as long as the engine can still reach its optimum rpm range - max torque - and/or max rpm). And yes , it will provide more economy, but not much more according to the law of conservation of energy ( as long as the engine is still runing in the correct range ). A flatter pitch is very good for climb but on horizontal flight the propeller will easily over spin , forcing you to reduce throttle , therefore less speed . I you want, it is just like in a car . You have a quick start - acceleration - ( aka climb ) in the first gear , but for speed , the fifth or sixth is better.

Liciniu

john,

i do have a warp drive yes.


liciniu,


in the context of flying a ct with a fixed ( ground adjustable ) prop as well as many other fixed pitched prop designs my statement remains true.

here in the states ct's tend to come with their props pitched too coarse to realize best performance. they are often limited to 5,200 rpm. using sea level and a standard day to demonstrate as well as a prop that limits rpm to 5,000 the max available hp is 90hp. if you want to go faster add power, pitch so that you can cruise at 5,500 and you will go faster because you are developing 7% more power. you will also climb better for the same reason.

granted if you pitched for more then 5,500 rpm in climb you would have to slow down after 5 minutes so in this condition you would be correct, flatter would provide better climb and coarser would provide better speed.

if you pitch for 5,500 in summer you will enter this condition in the winter if you don't coarsen your pitch for winter. if i can realize 5,600 climbing i can likely cruise at 5,500 with a very low power setting wich results in good speed and good economy.

most prefer to optimize for speed ( 5,500 ) as opposed to climb ( up to 5,800 ) because the ct climbs so well even when limited to 5,500.

you point to cars to demonstrate your point. every car and motorcycle i have is limited in speed in its highest gear but that is where it gets its best economy.

liciniu,

to put it very simply, i would love to coarsen the pitch on my prop so that i would be "geared" to cruise at 140kts. however the 912 cannot develop the power to take advantage of the coarse pitch ( high gear )